For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17
How was the crucifixion of Jesus funded? As a Christian are you comfortable with abortions funded by your money? Check out Havana for your socialist paradise. I don't think Jesus would be smiling on that leftist hellhole and the oppression within. All taxation requires the threat of coercion to guarantee its implementation. Jesus said to try to keep the 10 commandments. What is #8 again? I also don't find passing on trillions in debt to our children very Christ-like. Does anyone actually voluntarily donate to government social programs? Who wants to donate to Medicare? Who voluntarily donates to the Government Welfare System instead of the the Red Cross etc? Why would that be? I could be a lot more charitable if I wasn't already "donating" to the Iraq war, General Motors, enforcement of the Patriot Act, the War on Drugs, domestic and foreign welfare, and cricket control in Utah. Freedom and liberty isn't a "ism".
This topic is whats leading me to believe more and more that a government solution towards social programs are not the answer. Keep in mind back when welfare was handled by private charities, the solution was "teach a man to fish"instead of "give a man a fish". Private charities would not hand out money to someone who refused to work at mcdonalds or to people who were driving SUV's with flatscreen TV's in every room. With gov. solution, people are more easily to take out the free handout. As far as WWJD; There is a broad misconception that Jesus was born to come save the world. The four gospels was directed towards the Jews, not the gentiles. It was the rejection and crucification from the Jews that brought Christianity/Gentiles into the picture. The Jews have always been held at a different level of expectation (hence Gods choosen people) than the Gentiles. While I am not saying ignore everything Jesus says, his teachings didn't necessarily apply to the Gentiles. The Apostles is what brought about Christianity, and you do not see the same exact philosophy from the Apostles like you do see in Jesus. To say WWJD to a Christian who follows the Apostles doctrine is not exactly on par.
Paying taxes is a duty, it's not charity at all. Again, no one should have to prompt you to pay taxes. You should want to. Despite all the things your government may be doing wrong (in your view), you should be sad that you can't give charity. Your WILLINGNESS to give charity should never waver, only your ability. There has been no president who will satisfy everyone, and there never will be. Deal with it and stop using an eternal excuse to avoid giving charity. If you are telling me that the whole country doesn't have money or time for charity, and just enough to fill its real needs, and there are still people starving out there, then there's something seriously wrong. You have a responsibility to select responsible leaders to run the country too. If that is not happening, something is wrong with the system. I don't want to preach here as I'm probably a horriffic example myself. I spent way too much on my car and take relaxing vacations way too often. But I need to change this. I shouldn't find it so absurd that I drive a Corolla rather than a truck just to be able to give more charity. This should be normal. We work hard for our money in order to get the things we've always wanted. The first thing is you and your family's needs. Then the needs of the people around. Then the country. Then the world. We all have this in us, we just struggle to find it because we've been dreaming of that shiny car from the ads. F the car. There's someone dreaming of a plate of rice, and we're at home dreaming of cars, mansions, etc.. Sorry to go off like this (lol) I've just been soul searching recently and have become very angry at the way I've been living my life. It's more directed at myself than anyone else. I just wonder where and when I became completely blinded trying to win this simulation game created by capitalism and forgetting my fellow humans behind in the race. There's way too many hungry people in the world right now for most people to justify not giving charity. MOST of the world is poor. Did you guys know that? MOST of the world. Everyone assumes that socialism means we are all equal regardless of what we "earned". Mehh. I say that if you define a human's relation to you by the amount of money they have, then you have begun worshipping the dollar and I can't respect you. If you took all the money in the world today, and divied it equally among 6 billion people, the beautiful people would prosper. Because then the difference between me and you comes down to my morals. If that is a scary though for you, then you need to think about that.
We're gonna need to talk this one out a bit. I can't say I agree with it. I'm interested in your view, though. I don't think you need to be a Jew to find the Sermon on the Mount more than instructive, for instance.
Most of the data presented here is a bit flawed (you'll probably find some are too old and maybe some are too subjective with their observations etc.), but they're still reliable. I think they paint a different picture of welfare then you have in your mind. http://www.cbpp.org/11-16-98wel.htm http://uwnews.org/article.asp?articleID=2227 http://www.mdrc.org/publications/63/overview.html
I hear ya. Imagine how many people could have been fed with the money people spent traveling to see the inauguration of Obama. Heck, a lot of those people could have done something really crazy and bought themselves some health insurance with that money too.
I don't think Jesus would be bound to a man-made -ism. Jesus didn't command us to give our money to a central agency who then will help the poor, he commands us to help personally. I think scripture is pretty clear that Jesus was the Savior. The gospels spell that out pretty clearly, I think.
Disgusting graphic... Humans will never be perfect, and Christians are not expected to be perfect. However, I think the criticism needs to be directed at the humans and not the Christian beliefs.
That's exactly what this thread is about. I don't know how we ended up discussing Jesus approved socialism, but I think the main point is the disconnect and indeed conflict between two of the major social forces in American thought: capitalism and Christianity.
That's for sure. "You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do." -Anne Lamott If you take some stuff in the Bible literally, that means you have to take everything literally. Too many people pick and choose what verses they live by, and in doing so alienate others based on their own bigotry. Some people guise their fear and hatred as religious belief, when in actuality it's plain and simple bigotry. (I feel like I'm more a social liberal because of my faith, but I definitely see Jesus' philosophy as the antithesis of capitalism). edit: Some incredible reading on this topic is American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America by Chris Hedges.
Please I beg you do not try to find your political party or your left wing, right wing, socialist, capitalist, communist, democracy, republican, democrat, etc in Jesus Christ. Nobody needs to wonder what Jesus would do if he were alive today. Nothing's changed. He would do exactly the same thing he did in the Bible so read it. For all the people who are trying to compare Jesus' life to the perception of Christianity in America today I apologize. Again I cannot emphasize enough, Jesus would do the same thing today that he did when he was on earth before, and I am quite sure the outcome would be the same. Jesus did not run a mission for the poor. He did not have a homeless ministry. He did not campaign against the government, not did he try to influence it in any way, nor did He give it any support whatsoever. If His Kingdom was in any way related to government or all the 'isms of man He would have wrote a different ending to His life on earth. There is no connection. If you want to follow Jesus do what He did and what He commanded. If you love Him that's a no brainer. He spent his ministry on earth preaching and teaching, He performed miracles and He did exactly what His Father in Heaven wanted Him to do. I don't think He was crucified because He healed a sick person, forgave a woman who was commiting adultery or fed 5000 people with a few fishes and loaves of bread. His preaching infuriated the religious, was suspicious to the government and obviously fell largely on deaf ears except for a handful of people. He wasn't a uniter at all and in the end his popularity poll blew through the bottom as a very large crowd shouted crucify Him. Whether it was the hypocrite or the rich man, the sinner or the saint, Jesus message stayed the same. Someone posted Jesus was radical...yes He is, still today. Love like He loved, live like He lived, forgive like He forgave, give like He gave, preach what he preached... It is simple to read what Jesus did, harder to follow... that has been my struggle and devotion.
Rereading, I see how you can be confused by what I meant. I by no means believe Jesus is not the Savior. Ignore the divine destiny of Jesus and focus on what He believed at the time of his existence in human form. Some believe he was God in flesh and some believe he was divine after crucifixion and other believe he was never divine. In his walk with the diciples in human form, he was sent to save the Jews. By "born", i mean by his initial creation. Of course, it was prophesied that the Jews would reject him. In his teachings with the disciples, his teachings were geared towards the Jews. Once again, Im not saying ignore everything Jesus taught in the first four gospels, but do understand its not necessarily geared towards the Gentiles. I don't believe Jesus intends anyone to be rich or poor. His teachings are clearly directed towards the spiritual and whats in the heart as opposed to what material possessions we do or do not have. I hear this quote often. Two points; This passage is about a man who has given up everything, except his wealth. If a man is willing to give up his wealth, then I do not believe he is in offense. Secondly, its implying you can not buy your way into heaven. We enter heaven with only our souls, nothing else, including our riches. Its not saying we can not have wealth on Earth.
Space Ghost, I just want to applaud you for truly using the Word of God to stress the point that you wanted to make. I could really see the Lord speaking through you to prove His divine plan: Ephesians 6:17 (New International Version) 17Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
LOL, there is no reason to believe that Jesus ever lived. There is no contemporary reporting of Jesus in a time when history was recorded. If not for Paul, the alleged memory of Jesus would not have survived the 1st century. Jesus, Mohamed, Vishnu, Joseph Smith, that alien guy that Tom Cruise worships, Buddha, Jim Jones, etc.... Someday, humans will get past this complete nonsense, and we will realize that we are in the same boat, floating in a sea of vulnerable ignorance. I bet then wars will be much less common. Therefore, who the f care what Jesus would do?
Dear Stanleyturds, The sandbox is located in your local park. Please go play with the children and let the adults discuss adult things in an adult manner. Sincerely, People who know how to debate and discuss in a respectful manner
Could you find a way to be more condescending and a little bigger of a jackass? First zantabak1111, and now that he's gone you decide to take up his slack.
