what will be left at #15 and what to do?

I'd trade Cuttino for Butler before I would trade Griffin for him. Then I'd draft Welsch at #15 to play the 2 guard. A lineup of Ming, Griffin, Butler, Welsch, and Francis would be very nice. Welsch and Butler could be the defensive stoppers outside, while Ming and Griffin swat everything that's shot inside.

 

I don't think Butler will slip this far, but if he does I think Phoenix will be looking to unload Penny since they want to develop Johnson. I also don't know what we'd do with Gugliotta.

I might be willing to take on Penny's salary if they take Rice (PHO saves 2 years), but I doubt Rice + KT + 15 + Collier gets it done for the #9 (Butler) and Penny.

We're probably just better off staying put and picking the best player available (Stoudimire, Nachbar, or Welsh)

 

DearRock: "What about Prince!!!"

I'm on record as thinking Prince would be a good fit for the Rockets, but if Rudy has his eye on him, I hope he trades down. We could get him at 18-20, if not later. But his stock could rise. He's smart, plays D, shoots well, blocks a few shots, and has a Reggie Miller like ability to find a way to score. but at the NBA level, I worry that he's too slight for the 4 and too slow for the 3. He seems like a real tweener to me.

Desert Scar: "I don't see any way Bordchardt falls to #15. Centers are too rare in the NBA and he is a solid center prospect with good fundamentals. The Clips might be better off (and save money) taking him and letting Kandi walk. That is even if the Knicks don't take him, and they really need a center."

From what I've heard. the Knicks still think of Camby as a 5 and will pick a 4.

New Jack: I'd trade Cuttino for Butler before I would trade Griffin for him. Then I'd draft Welsch at #15 to play the 2 guard. A lineup of Ming, Griffin, Butler, Welsch, and Francis would be very nice. Welsch and Butler could be the defensive stoppers outside, while Ming and Griffin swat everything that's shot inside."

Welsch has never played a minute in the NBA and you're sliding him into the starting lineup as a defensive stopper? Sorry, I've heard this before. I don't think even Butler is going to step in as a defensive stopper, although I think he would start for us. Mobley has his flaws, but he plays with heart and he's a constant threat from anywhere on the court, and all NBA teams are looking for guys like that.

I'm with TPL. No trades until the deadline. By then we may have decided to keep Kenny and trade Mo. Assuming all goes well with both, their trade value will he higher then. And we have time to evaluate everyone, including our #15, be it Nachbar, Prince, or even a guard. We seem to have good depth at guard, but Rudy was afraid to use it last year, and the minutes really wore on Cat and Steve.

Does no one else think Brown can be an adequate backup 1? At least he's a smarter point guard than Mooch.

 

I'm with you on TBrown.

Why do you all see everyone passing on Butler just because they already have talent at that position? I thought most teams mantra was to take the best player available regardless of position.... that it was always a mistake to reach for need and bypass a more highly rated player...

 

Excellent thread. Although I think we tend to undervalue KT. I agree we should seek a defensive presence at the 2/3 rather than another scorer.

After Steve and Cat we need backcourt help. I am not a Moochie fan. Oscar has the qualities we need, just not in the quantity we need. I think a 2/3 combo guard like Welsch (sp.) or Rush may help.

 

How about this scenario?
EDIT 6/18: Originally had Butler dropping to Phoenix @ #9, Rockets selecting Stoudemire @ #15 and trading him with KT to the Suns for Butler.

Too far-fetched, or no?

 

there are only 3 sfs I would trade KT + the 15 for:

Butler, MD, and Tsika, Tsika being the most intriguing. I don't think we'll be able to get any one of them, but ya never know.

Is Tsika working out for teams?

 

Live, I like your thinking, but the huge question is whether the Bucks would pass on Stoudamire (or Haislip for that matter) for Ely. If the Bucks are going to keep their team together and hope last year was an aberration, they may be more likely to pass on Stoudamire and Haislip. Ely could give them Mason-type play, without the headaches.

I think that if we can't get one of the top 3 SF's in the draft, we're better off going for Stoudamire, Rush or Welch. Cuttino played quite a bit of PG during his rookie year. He could run the point if Rush played SG. I think Rush would be a bigger upgrade over Moochie (particularly on defense) than Nachbar would be over Rice/Griffin/Morris.

We could allow Stoudamire to develop for a year or two, which lets us clear the PF situation: whether we keep KT, whether MT is healthy and worth a dang, and whether Griffin grows muscles and a post up game.

 

I can see that. I could also go for Q Woods by description. I think his hype may be hurting him. I think he may be able to be a man to man defensive downgrade, offensive upgrade on Shannon from descriptions.

He sounds like he's got some shooting guard skills sans the shooting. His work on the glass could ease the load off of Francis so he could do other things. He is different than most SFs in the West outside of Clipperland and would cause teams to adjust to him.

With Ming (Assume 1.4 bpg splitting time), Cato (1.2), KT (.6 with reduced PT), TMo (.3 with little PT), and Griffin (2.0 with more PT), I'm not worried as much about denying penetration as others on this board. You would be helping the other team by forcing their guards to take jumpshots.

Remember the famed Kenny Smith Matador Defense. It was just a ploy to lure guards into Hakeem.

Maybe not designed that way....

 

Live: How about this scenario?

You had me buying into it right up until 13. I just can't see Ely and Williams going ahead of Stoudemire. For that matter, I'm not sure Williams will even go ahead of Dickau, and I doubt Indiana will take either one. But I'll cross my fingers. I'd loooove to get Butler....

But I'm still against trading KT. Until I've seen MoT and Eddie improve, I consider him the starting 4.

 

ricealum,

Point taken.

Honestly, I have no idea what either one of those teams may do.

I think the Bucks will go big, and I chose Ely because he has a post game, and is more mature and prepared to contribute now. Then again, they're also in a position to allow a prospect like Stoudemire time to develop.

As far as Indiana, they were an even bigger question mark than the Bucks, they really don't need anything but experience. I remember reading somewhere that they'd like a combo G and some PG depth, so I picked Williams.

Either way, I think a package of KT and the best available big man, be it Ely or Stoudemire, could be enough to obtain Butler, especially if he falls.

 

There's no point in picking up a player like Welsch (despite his obvious Slavic appeal ) , whose primary position is shooting guard. Even if Francis' and Mobley's minutes are 'cut back', they'll still be on the court for 38-40 mpg. There's cheaper alternatives out there.

ricealum,

I wouldn't be too surprised to see Stoudemire drop to us, since he is the type of player GM's like to hype up in hopes of getting another player to fall to them, though even with Pryzbilla as a project in his own right, I would think Milwaukee would take him over Ely, who would likely go to the Pacers if they pass on Welsch.

The Pacers are the wild card team in all of this. They're set at every position sans backup pg and center, but they may in the end just go for the best player left on the board, regardless of position.

I'd like to hear what Clutch has heard concerning Nachbar. Given Rudy's relatively recent trip to see his team Treviso play, you'd think the Rockets' would have a good idea if he's their man if he's still on the board at 15.

There's the concern of if he'd play this season since his buyout (350,000) may make it less than financially appealing to come over so soon. I'd think that his familiarity with Rudy T would get him here though, and I would still love to have a player of the Hedo Turkoglu mold, which by all acounts, Nachbar is.

 

tpl-I'd think the Pacers would get a big body like Stoudemire/Ely or go for Reggie's replacement (Rush or Welsch). I don't think they want Mercer there long term, and aren't sure about being able to resign Artest, with O'Neal and Bender bigger priorities (plus Harrington/Croshere with large deals already). They're the hardest to predict, though I think 3-4-5 could control this draft's fate.

I agree that Welsch doesn't make a great deal of sense for us. We have a backup 1 signed long term, and backup SG is not of great concern (see Torres vs. Miles). It'd be a waste using a solid pick like 15, when if all you want is a 4th/5th guard, they're readily available for the vets minimum in free agency or with our 2nd rounder.

The Treviso trip is interesting me because there's 2 players from there that would seem to interest the Rockets, Tsika and Nachbar.

Live-Let's just hope Butler falls to at least 9. The 15th and a future #1 from a team that was thought to be a serious threat to win the East landed the #9 from us a couple years ago. KT is better than future Milwaukee #1, but the talent at 9 this year should be better.

Scar-I don't think Rudy has any Mobley at the PG slot plans in his future. We were missing Francis a good chunk, and Tierre Brown would play PG when Moochie needed a breather. That team also could afford to do that because we not only had a point forward in Pippen, but the only thing Mobley really had to do as a PG was give it to Barkley or Olajuwon in the post.

 

I can't argue against Nachbar (Welcsh too) because I haven't seen him play. If a player whose primary position is SG, but plays better SF than any Rocket and any SF left in the draft would defintely fill the rockets needs. I don't see Grizzard as being a better SF than Rush and would be in the area as Morris. Rush would give the Rockets a fallback 3 pt shooter that could be on the Court with Cat and Wink if Rice falters.

The Rockets already have PF types that can slide to SF if need be to match up. The Rockets have PFs. The Rockets have PGs. I doubt the rockets draft another center who could still development time from Ming. Torres is a free agent and I think Rush could un seat him.

If Nachbar is gone or not as good as hyped, I see the Rockets drafting best player available, who I think would be Rush (or another guard) if he's not gone. He'd be the only player from the NCAA who would have a good shot at cracking the two deep depth chart of the rockets.

 

If Ely Drops past Mil. and Ind. I wouldn`t mind seeing us take him. I know 23.5ppg.,9 plus rpg., and 3.5bpg. doesn`t always translate well to the pros but you can never have enough skilled big men. Especially a banger whose game starts at 8ft and works in.

The fact that he`s a senior helps as we already have too many young project players. At 6`10 he could play behind Ming or even along side him if Griffin or Taylor were getting overpowered in the post and we needed a physical, shot-blocking prescence at PF.

I know he does not fill an Immediate need but if Rudy and Carroll don`t see KT in our future maybe we could trade him for a pick(18-23) and still get a SF since that position is so deep this year.

 

I can see the Reggie replacement angle, but I still think they'll cross that bridge when they come to it, even though Artest, Miller, and Mercer are all in the last year of their contracts.

The logic in picking a Welsch or Rush is there for Indiana, but it sure would be one hell of a logjam, albeit only for one season. I say they either go with Frank Williams (he's got a Mobley like wingspan...7'0 ft I believe), or either Haislip or Ely.

Picks 3-5 could very well determine just who we'll have our choice of at 15 or to trade up for. I think Golden State goes with Gooden, since they won't risk having a sg turned pg experiment blow up in their face again like it did with Hughes by taking Wagner; Dunleavy to Memphis seems like a done deal to me; Denver? I still contend that Kiki won't play it safe by going for a Butler, and will hope for the best by taking on Tsiki...being a recent employee of the Mavs, who weren't averse to taking on foreign players to say the least, it'd be a calculated risk on his part that's worth taking.

Butler is a John Lucas kind of player, but I can't see them passing on Wilcox. They've got to rid themselves of the bland label at some point or another. NY won't take him, the Clippers will go with Kandi insurance in Hilario or Borchardt (likely the latter), with the Suns scooping up Nene, Jeffries, or Stoudemire.

So it really comes down to what Miami or Washington does. I slotted Miami to pick up Woods, as I still think the Rockets best shot to trade up would be with Washington at 11, though I don't think they really view Kenny Thomas as that much of an upgrade over what Etan Thomas may be able to provide next season for them. Then again, Kenny did impress against them, and Etan has been oft-injured since he entered the league, so who knows.....a future first might sweeten the pot enough for them to bite.

In the end, I think the easiest scenario will be the best one for the Rockets- Nachbar. At 6'9, 220 lbs, he's a prototypical small forward who presents a nice contrast to a team full of tweeners, and has that off the dribble, midrange game that this team direly needs.

Who to pick at 38?

I haven't even really given any consideration to this pick, despite hints that the player selected will likely make the team. My top candidates? I wouldn't mind a long, defensively capable jitterbug like Tito Maddox, or a backup two with a sweet stroke like Casey Jacobson.

Any thoughts on the 38th pick, Nike/Scar?

 

Scar-My mistake. I was referring to Rileydog's suggestion of Rush, and using Cat as a backup PG to get him minutes.

I think 38 depends a lot on what we do other than Yao.

I don't see us getting a SF with 38...it's doubtful to find one better than what we have in round 2.

If we get a lockdown defensive SF (Artest, or maybe C. Jefferies), I'd see us go for a shooter like Jacobsen, or Savovic. There was another 6-8 Yugoslavian that's supposed to be a lights out shooter and a late first/early 2nd type (Mladen Sekularac?).

If we get a more offensive oriented SF (Nachbar), I'd love to see us get a good defensive PG like Maddox, who could make Moochie expendable in a year or two.

I'm not too big on Dixon unless we got a point forward (which is basically Odom, and unlikely). I don't think he can play PG, so you'd have to go small, and then you lose any defensive advantage he'd give you.

If we got a total package like Butler somehow...it wouldn't even matter. Probably go for another PG.