What to Do if You Can't Afford Healthcare

That's only because they've shown a complete inability to do so well or efficiently.

But seriously man, I really enjoyed your description of Canada's political system. It's good to know so in depth aboiut our neighbor's syatems...even if I don't always agree that they are the best solution. Seriously, much appreciated.

Subsidized yes, but not taken over, controlled, managed and owned by government.

Hilarious!!!! That may be almost as good as the term assclown. Can I use this phrase?

Even though I've never been there I have a fondness for Alberta because of the Hart family.

 

The Harts?! I see Stu at the grocery store from time to time. We live in the same general area of Calgary. He’s getting very old and sickly looking. He can’t stand up straight anymore, just leans on his cart and putters around with a couple of people helping him. I don’t think he’s long for this world. I don’t seem to run into Brett though. I guess he doesn’t do the shopping. What’s your fascination with Harts about, if you don’t mind me asking? (Not to get too far off topic, but you Texans never cease to surprise me with the things you know about Canada, so I'm curious.)

 

I agree...I wish it were different...and quite honestly, there is a lot of time that simple pride enters the issue...I want to do a good job on a pleading because ultimately it's a public record for everyone to see...and I just want to be a good attorney. But I can't ask that of everyone...so I'm willing to pay people to make sure there is incentive for the guy to get the job done right.

Example...I have a friend who wants to retain me in an employment law matter. He was quick to tell me he wants to pay me...he says it makes him feel more comfortable and more assured that I'll be working hard.

 

Damn, then what the hell am I doing? ~12+ years in school with the very high possibility that no job will be available when I get out. Even if I am able to get one, I can look forward to making less than a shoe salesman.

Sometimes I just sit in my closet and cry.

 

Wow, you're not very presumptuous, are you? Find me a spot in this thread where I've called *you* a biased immature egomaniac. Oh, wait, I don't think you'll find one - because unlike many people here, I'm perfectly capable of separating the argu*ment* from the argu*er*. There are a few basic tenets of debate that your wee ego apparently doesn't understand either. Cohen. Moreover, you've mischaracterised my attitude both to the United States and to its health system. But, you know, what's accuracy in the face of such admirable patriotism? My country, right or wrong, eh?

Frankly, I don't feel like repeating and clarifying myself, because Grizzled has objectively *whipped all your arses* in this debate and he's arguing the exact same things I am - in a much more detailed and researched way! Try and refute all *his* points if you like. Plus, he's a much nicer person than I am.

Oh, and MadMax: come *on*, dude! What do you want me to do, start a thread every day on why I love America? Who am I, Mattress Mac? This idea that I'm 'against' the USA on everything is so deeply, deeply r****ded. My father's American! I *married* an American! I watch basketball and baseball! I'm obsessed with King of the Hill! I went to Memphis just to see the Stax building! I still can't watch September 11 footage without wanting to cry my eyes out! Some of my best friends... blah, blah, blah. Just because you criticise something doesn't mean you don't *like* it. Or even love it. Ask me what I think could do with improving in New Zealand sometime. You'd be here all bloody day...

 

Originally posted by dimsie
Wow, you're not very presumptuous, are you? Find me a spot in this thread where I've called *you* a biased immature egomaniac.

Biased, easily. Immature, no, I didn't say that. Ego...yea, but IMHO.

Oh, wait, I don't think you'll find one - because unlike many people here, I'm perfectly capable of separating the argu*ment* from the argu*er*. There are a few basic tenets of debate that your wee ego apparently doesn't understand either. Cohen.



Sorry to irritate you (I know that's not so difficult ). I was explaining my previous sarcasm. I apologize if I offended you. It was much more-straightforward than I usually am, but you seem pretty tough and I thought that you could easily handle it. I actually have a fairly high amount of respect for you and your opinions. You may have a opportunities to be more effective in your arguments (I doubt you have many discussions ) , but hey, again, JMHO (was that better? ).

Moreover, you've mischaracterised my attitude both to the United States and to its health system.

Apparently, it is rather easy to miss the positives that you see in our healthcare system.

I never said that you had a problem with the US.

But, you know, what's accuracy in the face of such admirable patriotism? My country, right or wrong, eh?

Now you are mischaracterizing. I have stated on many occasions that our healthcare system is broken.

Re. patriotism, my feelings there are that it can be quite dangerous. I am a member of the human race. I strive to keep things in perspective.

Frankly, I don't feel like repeating and clarifying myself, because Grizzled has objectively *whipped all your arses* in this debate and he's arguing the exact same things I am - in a much more detailed and researched way! Try and refute all *his* points if you like.

I very recently discussed healthcare in another thread with Grizzled. He is very proud of the Canadian system, and that's great. His discussion here appears to be with Refman, and my arse feels just fine. Grizzled knows that I am more than willing to discuss the issue further if he would like.

Plus, he's a much nicer person than I am.

Oh, but but deep down...

 

I have been a fan of pro wrestling since 1986. Stu Hart has contributed to it greatly through his pupils at his "dungeon." You probably don't see Bret because he was in a motorcycle accident a couple of months ago and he suffered a stroke as a result. He is currently rehabbing and is progressing nicely. All reports I have heard say that the Harts are extremely nice people.

And I don't mind you asking at all.

 

I don't thinbk my arse got kicked. Arse...do you feel kicked? No? That's what I thought. Grizzled disagrees with me to be sure. But he also asked for the American perspective which I gave him. He never told me that I lacked compassion or was intellectually challenged in some way for believing the way I do. We disagree and I think both of us are fine with that.

If that's what you call an arse kicking then there's a lot of it going on everywhere. No arse is safe.

 

Dimsie...good to hear! I just don't think I've EVER heard you say anything positive at all about US policy. I don't post I love america threads all day either...and there are tons of things about this country I'd love to change...but I just posted that I don't recall ever seeing you say anything at all positive about the States. That's all...

and no need to get defensive...my opinion in the scheme of things isn't important enough for you to get upset about...

 

Saw a special last night on an Australian infant with a severe case of hemangioma on her face, She was not expected to survive her first year. She was flown to a specialst in Arkansas for steroid treatment and surgeries. The treatments worked quite well. Unfortunately, the standard treatment in Australia for hemangioma is interferon, which can cause brain damage in young infants. It apparently did cause some damage in this baby.

I often hear of stories of foreigners who come to the US for treatment of rare or serious illness. US doctors just separated two Guatemalan infants joined at the head. We have had foreign heads of state come here for healthcare. Thare are also cases ( including Canadian) where the public health departments approve to pay for special care to be rendered in the US. Only anecdotal, but it speaks to where some of the most innovative and effective care is available. We must be careful when seeking changes in a system that serves as a safety net for so many in the world.

I understand how we need to cover that 14% of our population without healthcare, but we also need to protect a system as progressive as ours for everyone's sake, and we have many other concerns to address in the system to save patient lives.

 

quote:
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Originally posted by MadMax


Dimsie...good to hear! I just don't think I've EVER heard you say anything positive at all about US policy. I don't post I love america threads all day either...and there are tons of things about this country I'd love to change...but I just posted that I don't recall ever seeing you say anything at all positive about the States. That's all...

and no need to get defensive...my opinion in the scheme of things isn't important enough for you to get upset about...
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I'm not upset by your opinion - I'm just incredulous. It seems utterly ludicrous to me that I need to make people 'feel better' about my opinion of the USA before I'm allowed to criticise it with impugnity. "OK, guys, I just want to say first of all: U-S-A! U-S-A! You f*cking rock, so hard! WOOOOOOOO!!!! ...... Ahem. Now that we've got that out of the way and you're confident in my love for your country, could I mention its health system and how I think it needs to be reformed?"

Hey Cohen, hang on a minute: you actually *agree* with me that your healthcare system is broken? [head spinning] Oh, never mind...

 

Dimsie!

Now my head is spinning.

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From the Canadian-vs-US Healthcare System thread:
http://bbs.clutchcity.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37855&highlight=healthcare

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Do I really sound like a horse with blinders on to you? It seems like any defense of the US leads you to the conclusion that we are marching around our computers waving the Stars and Stripes and blowing on kazoos.

I have never EVER said that we have a perfect, great, or the very best healthcare system in the world (for specific cases I would argue it is, but the broader social context cannot be ignored). I believe that I am quite realistic about our system. Are you certain that you are so realistic about it? Are you certain that the changes that you advocate won't break other aspects of it? Maybe ruin it for the 84% who are insured, or for the people from around the world who come here for special treatment?

 

So basically, we actually agree on some stuff here, but you were peeved by my *tone*. Oh. Well, never mind. My tone isn't ever likely to change much.

(I still think a universal system would be better than your current system. You seem to be advocating a 'it's broke, but don't fix it in case you break it worse!' approach, which I find odd. Surely you should try *something* else?)

The kazoos thing is pretty funny, though.

 

I think I and other posters here have advocated doing something else, just not something governmental. The government has proved incapable of effective management. I have discussed the effects on R&D etc ad neaseum. You may not agree and that is your right. I happen to come from a place where the federal government has very limited powers under the Constitution and I do not think that we want to expand those powers in the process of turning 10 to 14% of the GPD a product of government.

 

They certainly are a beloved family in Calgary, sort of like working class heroes, but they’re a pretty screwed up lot too. I don’t follow wrestling, but I used to watch the old Stampede Wrestling a bit as a kid. That was run by the Harts and was where a lot of the older guys today got their start. Even then there were a lot of stories about the Hart’s basement and Stu’s training regimen. When I say I haven’t seen Bret I mean I’ve lived in this neighbourhood for about 8 years and I don’t think I’ve ever seen him, but I see Stu several times a year. Here’s a recent article on Bret and his accident you may not have seen.
http://www.canoe.ca/Slam020809/wre_hart-sun.html

In response to the comments on money as a motivator, I really don’t believe that money is a major factor in choosing a career. If it is, then I think you’re a prime candidate for a major midlife crisis. If you choose to do something you don’t really like just to make a couple of extra bucks, then you are essentially trading your life, what you do all day long for at least 5 days a week, for a few extra bobbles and bangles. Bad trade if you ask me. Money is a factor of course, just not near the top of the list, IMO. Some people feel differently, I know. The lure of mammon is strong, but it’s ultimately a dead end street IMO.

One of the issues here how to make the system more responsive to wishes of the people too, but the problem was the opposite of what you are fearing I suspect. Governments were cutting back healthcare spending when most people wanted it increased. We also have the same problems you do in that the cost of healthcare is steadily increasing. The ageing population will surely strain the system even more. We’re going to have to make some difficult decisions about what should be covered under the universal plan and what should be covered by private insurance. Huge amounts of money can be spent on elderly people, on procedures which have a relatively low probability of success, and only give a marginal improvement in quality of life if successful. Should the public pay for these procedures? If we have to make choices, and it certainly looks like we will in the not too distant future, perhaps these are some of the issues that should be looked at. You could say that past the age of 75, for argument’s sake, certain procedures will not be covered by the universal plan and must be covered by private insurance. This gives people their whole lives to save or pay into an insurance plan, to make choices about how they treat their bodies, and/or to make other choices about what they want to spend to prolong their lives a little longer. I think this may be a fair and workable solution for us, but we’re just in the early stages of discussing reforms, so we’ll see what other ideas come up. The Romanow report should be coming out soon.
http://www.healthcarecommission.ca/

 

Wow Grizzled...I think we may be onto something here.

Sounds like some kind of hybrid plan. I would want this to be more private than government...but hey differing philosophies, eh?

Not really what I'm saying. There are many things that I would be perfectly happy doing. I chose law because it is one of those things and my upside income potential will be higher than if I had chose one of the other things. Without that motivator I never would have pushed myself as hard as I did inschool for an extra 3 years, racking up student debt, and then studying for the Bar (a miserable experience). I submit that doctors feel the same way...but they spend a lot more on their education and work harder for longer. Studies show that becoming a doctor can actually cut your life short by 5 to 10 years.

He's been on the road most of that time (200 days a year or better). Yep...pretty messed up family. Owen's dead. One of the daughter's is married to Jim Neidhart. One of the daughter's was married to Davey Boy Smith before his passing. There has been a lot of tragedy in that family and that will skew the way you view the world. Next time you see Stu...send him my regards.

Bret has always been one of my favorites though. I miss seeing him get in the ring. He perfected his art greatly.

 

Um... most universal systems have the option of private insurance, you know.

 

You are anti-American. Your posts are so blatantly and 'incredulously' negative about American foreign and domestic policy that its not suprising people don't care for your attitude, nor that they criticize you for your obvious bias. Its not necessary to like the US to objectively critique it, but your consistent negative evaluations across a wide spectrum of topics shows a pattern of predictably anti-American conclusions. You objectivity is questionable at best and your posts read like bad Soviet era Pravda re-writes.

If the US could just be magically transformed into New Zealand, we'd be so irrelevant that no one would critique us, and we would feel much better about ourselves...

And no, you do not take ANY action to fix something broken. Presumption is AGAINST change for change's sake, as is the law of unintended consequences. To affirm a course of action you must have a reasonable expectation of success.

 

Wow, I didn't even notice this for ages. You are such an enormous, predictable, pathetic spaz, HS. Aren't you just a teeny bit embarrassed for yourself?

Yeah, *I'm* anti-American. I'm a US citizen with an unrenounced US passport which I've had from birth, who has spent several years living in America, has lots of close friends plus blood family in the US, has plans to visit there every few years for the rest of my life, wants to live in New York at some point although I could never afford it, and, moreover, *married an American*. What, precisely, would help you to feel better about my posts, HayesStreet? A brass band playing 'Pomp and Circumstance' marching towards you through the streets of London with me dressed in red, white and blue as the majorette?

Oh, btw, I'm well aware of my country's status as an irrelevant little backwater. Unlike you, I don't take those kinds of remarks personally. We're talking about *countries*, and what's good and bad about them. You don't need to freak out so much: I have it on reliable authority that these discussions are not in any way related to the size of your dick.