What they'll do to your tax bill (McCain Vs. Obama)Estimated deductions on income lvl

My position is in one of the larger oil/gas trusts in Canada. Dividends were around 15% minus the Canadian tax withhold, which still gave me some very nice cash returns. Yes the stock price have been lagging some of the high flyers, but its a decent hedge against some of my other positions, and dividends are taxed at a much lower rate than short capital gains. I believe the Canadian tax status haven't been changed just yet, couple more years maybe?

 

Since the income tax was implemented, the rich have seen their taxes slashed by over 2/3 while the rest of us have seen no net reduction in tax rates. This coincides with the erosion of our infrastructure, educational system, etc. The rich owe more to our society for providing an environment that allowed them to become rich, so they should pay more in taxes.

 

Quoted for truth.

 

Oh, darn. Talk to some people who can barely afford to fill their cars up with gas to get to work, then perhaps I will listen to your b!tching about your drop in spending.

Bush cut your taxes like nobody's business and ran some of the biggest deficits in history to do it. One of these days, those chickens are going to come home to roost and I would prefer sooner than later.

 

1.) It's my money. I work way more than most of the people who can't fill up their gas tank, so get off your soapbox.

2.) You have no clue what my spending habits are. People have this deluded image that the "wealthy" are sitting around buying caviar. I know for a fact that I spend significantly less than the average american.

3.) Raising my taxes and cutting everyone else's, isn't going to let the chickens come home to roost. It's still balooning the deficit. This isn't fixing the problem. If this were to fix the problem, that would be a different story.

4.) Garbage like this is what incents people to structure businesses off shore and form tax shelters.

 

The people I know who are having trouble are working two and three jobs to get by. I seriously doubt you work more than some of them.

Not if you have the ability to take $20,000 out of your spending budget. The "average" American makes about $40,000 and will not have anywhere near $20,000 for discretionary spending.

This is where we agree. We need to have a balanced budget amendment that includes a provision for having enough money to actually pay down the national debt. I would raise taxes enough that we could pay for all of this and would raise these taxes mostly on the people who have actually had their tax rates cut by more than 2/3 since the income tax was instituted.

And those people are garbage and deserve to be deported to whatever offshore PO box they structured their business in and barred from doing business in the US.

 

Wow. Its a little different when you can actually hear from one of those "rich" people. We have someone here flat out saying that if Obama gets elected he loses $20,000 a year. Then we have several people telling him that he owes it for us propping him up and making him successful.

Awesome.

Even if you make $250,000 a year, $20,000 is STILL A LOT OF MONEY...and its $20,000 MORE than the HUGE amount he already pays. It is a lifestyle changer. Its not some super wealthy guy thinking he won't be able to lay down one more bet on black in Vegas. Its a hard working successful American, who has made choices to excel and earn more, and is going to have a government punish him for it.

Maybe he figures he can get educated, work his ass off, sacrifice time, fun, family and earn more now, for saving a lot of money and retiring early. Obama would like to prevent him from doing that by taking 20K a year away from him....maybe its 20K a year that he would need to retire 10 years early and devote to things he enjoys...who knows...but I think it sucks.

AND

$250,000 a year is NOT rich anymore. Its upper middle class.

 

If its 2-3 40 hour/week jobs, then we're probably very very close, but if it's close, then they win, so I'll give you that. On the other hand, I see people who work 40 hours a week and can't get by, but are living well outside their income. Anecdotal stories from either of us are meaningless. I don't think that's representative of most people.

True. And frankly I overstated dramatically (which I know is a rarity in this forum ). The reality is everything I can cut from a spending perspective will be cut. The rest will have to come from other sources. My bigger point was that this will have an adversely large effect on my spending, which isn't good for anyone given the fact that our economy is consumer driven.

I on the other hand would want the government to be more responsible about spending. If that is done AND I have to pay higher taxes, I'm actually ok with it. But I hate seeing money wasted and being asked to pay higher taxes at the same time.

That's nice to say, but it would have a hell of a an effect on the economy and is 100% impractical. The point is, that by raising taxes to levels like that, you end up creating the wrong type of incentives. The people that get caught in the tax trap aren't the ones who can most afford to pay the taxes. They avoid them. The rest of us get caught.

 

When listening to McCain talk about economics, remember this...

 

What is the interest rate on the debt and what are they earning on their assets that they would use to pay the debt?

 

the answers are too much and not enough. if those aren't then answers then something questionable is going on with those cards.

 

Not saying this is the case, but you've never received a CC offer with X% interest for the life of the purchase or transfer?

 

Agreed.

Yes, but the people who do most of the spending are the people who will receive the biggest cuts under Obama's plan. Thus, spending will drop very little.

I agree, but what would you cut? I would argue that defense spending could drop dramatically given that we spend more on our military than the next 10 countries combined. There is plenty of pork that could be cut and I am all for it. However, I don't see it happening unless we have a balanced budget amendment that does not allow spending unless revenues increase. This is part of the reason I support a consumption tax. It is relatively easy to tie spending to a sales tax increase that everyone would feel immediately.

Two words: consumption tax. You get to choose exactly how much you pay in taxes each year by controlling your consumption.