LOL.. I thought that too! ------------------ All hail Fadeaway's Cyberfish -- your 2000-2001 BobFinn* Fantasy Basketball League Champions!
But that's not what he says in The Joker. He says that people call him Maurice because he speaks of the pompatus of love. He doesn't say anywhere that people call him Maurice because he wrote and sings the other song. We have to know what he means, which is entirely different than what he says, to accept the line as making sense in and of itself. But as it is, the line doesn't make sense as it is written and sung because people don't call him Maurice for the reasons given. People call him Maurice for an entirely different reason that we're supposed to know. (Also, I suspect that in real life, nobody has ever called Steve Miller by the name Maurice, at least not prior to The Joker). ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
Another example: When JFK went to Berlin and told everybody he was a jelly doughnut, we knew what he really meant, but the line itself still doesn't make any sense because JFK is not a jelly doughnut. It only makes sense because we change the line in our head to mean something other than what was said. So, Steve Miller's line "Some people call me Maurice because I speak of the pompatus of love" only makes sense if we change the line to mean what we think Steve Miller wanted it to mean, which was "Some people call me Maurice because I wrote a song called Enter Maurice with the same lyric I'm about to say in this song". The original line doesn't make sense as written and sung. We give it a meaning that isn't there because we're supposed to know what he's trying to say, and we're supposed to ignore what he actually says. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited June 12, 2001).]
+1/+1 To all black creatures... ------------------ "There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and STATISTICS..." - Mark Twain -
Yes. Exactly. We do this all the time in interpreting poetry and song lyrics. Very little poetry would make sense if interpreted literally. Yet, poetry can make sense. mrpaige admits that "because I speak of the pompatus" makes a better line than "because I wrote 'Enter Maurice'". mrpaige knows what Miller was trying to say. Does Rime of the Ancient Mariner make no sense too? It only makes sense if we ignore what Coleridge actually says, and we're supposed to know what Coleridge means. I think JFK's big mistake was to say "Ich bin ein Berliner." Apparently, IIRC, without the "ein", that's a perfectly valid way to say "I am a Berliner". All JFK did was add an article in the wrong place. [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited June 12, 2001).]
You know, the scary thing is I think they're BOTH right... ... the line makes sense in the latter song. It didn't make sense in Enter Maurice. And the word doesn't make sense, overall. Jeez... ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Not to get off the Steve Miller debate, but I have another one. You know that song "Scar Tissue" by the Red Hot Chili Peppers? What's the chorus supposed to be? It sounds like it's something about a bird and a shade and a lonely view, but I honestly have no clue what he's singing there. ------------------ Founding Father of the Refs Suck Club
Apparently, my explanation about JFK's "ein" is wrong, and the most common misconception. here's one explanation another from about.com: It's true that the word "Berliner" in German means a particular kind of pastry as well as a citizen of Berlin. But look at it this way: if I were to tell a group of Americans that my editor is a New Yorker, would any of them really think I have him confused with a weekly magazine? [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited June 12, 2001).]
Of course, we also have to ignore the fact that he cannot "speak of" the pompatus of love since no such thing exists. But the debate was about whether the lyric in and of itself makes sense. It does not. It only makes sense when we strip away what is said and find a new meaning completely different than what he is saying. This saying yellow when I mean green doesn't fly with me, at least not in a silly pop song and especially when the effort is merely to make reference to a previous work not to make some sort of statement about something (since the lyric is nothing more than a reference to a previous work. It's his attempt to draw attention to himself when we boil everything down to the bacon). So, I'm not willing to cut Steve Miller any slack. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
But if this person said "I am New Yorker" we might well think that he/she was claiming to be the magazine. So the article can make a difference. (though it seems to make the opposite difference in the Berlin example). But we all knew what he meant, so regardless of whether there is a question about what he literally said, we get the gist. I get the gist of what Steve Miller was trying to say, as well, but I'm not willing to cut him the same slack as I am for President Kennedy (and in Kennedy's case, there really is apparently some question as to whether he did flub the line. In Miller's case, there is no question that he says something completly different than what he means). ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
So, most poetry makes no sense, because we have to strip away the author's actual words to figure out the meaning? Meaning only exists when spelled out literally, with correct grammar, and correct use of "speak of"? Using "the pompatus" as a metaphor to refer to the song "Enter Maurice" is somehow invalid? This is a clear metaphor, yes? [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited June 12, 2001).]
I don't know what poetry you read, but the poetry I've been forced to endure made sense on its face. I didn't have to know some back story that isn't present to understand the work at its textual level. If we analyze the poems and find the subtext, we see more. But the text itself has always made sense. I don't have to rely on The Straight Dope and interviews with the author to understand the text. Miller's line is gibberish - impossible and untrue - on its face. It cannot make sense on its own (and I wouldn't call it a metaphor. He's simply making reference to a previous work in a clumsy way. There's no attempt to use words that mean one thing to draw a comparison to words that mean another. All the World's A Stage is a metaphor. Speaking of the pompatus of love is not. I think of it as more of an allusion, personally). In order for it to make any sense at all, I have to be aware of the previous work. There is no textual sense. It can only make sense if we know the backstory. The same is not true for any poetry that I've ever read. ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited June 12, 2001).]
Not sure if this one was mentioned but ever since "Boogie Nights" when they tried to rob that coke dealer...this song rings in my head and I had so many different lyrics for these lines. The ones below are from a <a href="http://www.amiright.com/misheard/artist/nightranger.shtml">Misheard Lyrics site</a> where it appears they have a whole lot more if your interested. For now, I will post these from their site. Damn songs.....GET OUT OF MY BRAIN!!!!!!! Surf --------------------------------------------- Night Ranger's, "Sister Christian" Misheard Lyrics: Motorin', what's your spice for life? Correct Lyrics: Motorin', what's your price for flight? Night Ranger's, "Sister Christian" Misheard Lyrics: Mowed her head or Motörhead Correct Lyrics: Motorin' --------------------------------------------- Night Ranger's, "Sister Christian" Misheard Lyrics: What's your price for Christ Correct Lyrics: What's your price for flight Night Ranger's, "Sister Christian" Misheard Lyrics: You're molderin', what's your price for life? Correct Lyrics: You're motoring, what's your price for flight? --------------------------------------------- Night Ranger's, "Sister Christian" Misheard Lyrics: You're motoring,what's your price for rice? Correct Lyrics: You're motoring,what's your price for flight? --------------------------------------------- Night Ranger's, "Don't Tell Me You Love Me" Misheard Lyrics: I've lived twenty-five years, I'm a kid on the run I got a bigger erection or I've lived twenty-five years, I'm a kid on the run I got a pistol for action Correct Lyrics: I've lived twenty-five years, I'm a kid on the run I gotta pick a direction Night Ranger's, "Sister Christian" Misheard Lyrics: Motor Inn, What's your price per night? Correct Lyrics: You're motoring. What's your price for flight? Or how about Nirvana: Nirvana's, "Smells Like Teen Spirit" Misheard Lyrics: With the lights out this is dangerous And we don't know, entertain us Call me stupid and contagious And we don't know, entertain us or Now the light's out. Hit the stages. Here we are now,entertain us. I feel stupid and contagious. Here we are now. Entertain us or Now the light's out. Print the pages. Here we are now. Entertain us. Kiddy stupid and outrageous. Here we are now. Entertain us Correct Lyrics: With the lights out, its less dangerous Here we are now,entertain us. I feel stupid and contagious. Here we are now. Entertain us [This message has been edited by Surfguy (edited June 12, 2001).]
Very simply: If you won't allow Miller to make a metaphor, you won't be able to understand his lyrics. Now, let's do the point by point dance How about Kubla Khan? (another Coleridge, and my all-time favorite) On its face, it doesn't make much sense. I think "sexual metaphor" immediately upon reading it. A literal reading makes no sense. You've never had an experience where reading a writer's earlier works helped you understand his newer works? I enjoy being able to understand deeper meanings because of my familiarity with earlier works. One person's missing a metaphor doesn't make it gibberish. Miller fans surely understood the reference. Miller fans are presumably the audience. The audience could be expected to "get" the metaphor. There's about as much "textual" sense in Kubla Khan's decreeing a stately pleasure dome in Xanadu, as in someone's calling Miller Maurice for pompatus. You can't understand the line unless you "get" the metaphor. I can't think of a particular metaphor in a poem that requires knowledge of a specific previous work. I do think that a general knowledge of prior work would aid your ability to understand metaphors in, say, Elizabeth Browning's Sonnets from the Portugese i,ii,iii,iv,v, or Shakespeare's Sonnets i thru Sonnets xx. [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited June 12, 2001).]
The only part of Kubla Khan I've ever heard is the part that's in Citizen Kane. I'm not a big poetry buff (actually, I don't care for poetry at all). While a knowledge of a previous work of poetry by the same author might make it easier for me to understand the subtext of the later works, I've never encountered a situation where knowledge of the previous work was required to understand the work on its face like is required in The Joker. And I don't know that we can say that the audience that the song is aimed at necessarily know the back story. I've heard The Joker more times that I could possibly count. I enjoy the song. I've never heard Enter Maurice. I've never heard any of the other songs mentioned in The Joker. The fact that so many people ask about the line (and apparently don't make the connection to Enter Maurice) shows me that a good portion of the audience doesn't know the backstory and therefore cannot understand the reference made because it doesn't make sense on its face. Thankfully we can enjoy the song, though, without understanding the meaning of the words (as has been noted here in relation to other songs, we can often enjoy songs when we don't even know what the words are or have a mistaken impression as to what the words are). ------------------ Houston Sports Board Film Dallas.com AntiBud.com
Can we sign a treaty, mrpaige? I'll agree that: "The lyric is ostensibly nonsense, particularly because Miller uses a word that he can't even define." If, AND ONLY IF, You'll agree with: "But, if the listener knew of Miller's prior work, he might find a metaphor in the lyric. And, that listener might agree that the lyric fits in really well with the other 2 lines in the stanza." Or you make up something better. You get 5 extra points for agreeing with: "And you know, that line wasn't half bad after I knew the story." I thought it was nonsense the first time I heard it. I'm sure most people thought it was nonsense the first time they heard it. But after I heard the story, I thought "I'll be damned, that line *does* make sense." PS - I was taught "Kubla Khan" in high school, though I did have a sex-crazed English teacher. [This message has been edited by jamcracker (edited June 12, 2001).]
Oh my god DarkHorse, i dont think anybody got that joke but it was still corny as hell. lol. ------------------ The next time I have meat and mashed potatoes, I think I'll put a very large blob of potatoes on my plate with just a little piece of meat. And if someone asks me why i didn't get more meat, ill just say, "Oh, you mean this?" and pull out a big piece of meat from inside the blob of potatoes, where ive hidden it. Good magic trick, huh?
Take it mrpaige, jamcracker's post is right on! ------------------ www.swirve.com "Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're f*****."-George Carlin
Scar Tissue Scar tissue that I wish you saw Sarcastic mister know it all Close your eyes and I'll kiss you 'cause With the birds I'll share With the birds I'll share This lonely view With the birds I'll share This lonely view Push me up against the wall Young Kentucky girl in a push-up bra Fallin' all over myself To lick your heart and taste your health 'cause With the birds I'll share This lonely view With the birds I'll share This lonely view With the birds I'll share This lonely view... Blood loss in a bathroom stall Southern girl with a scarlet drawl Wave good-bye to ma and pa 'cause With the birds I'll share With the birds I'll share This lonely view With the birds I'll share This lonely view Soft spoken with a broken jaw Step outside but not to brawl Autumn's sweet we call it fall I'll make it to the moon if I have to crawl and With the birds I'll share This lonely view With the birds I'll share This lonely view With the birds I'll share This lonely view... Scar tissue that I wish you saw Sarcastic mister know it all Close your eyes and I'll kiss you 'cause With the birds I'll share With the birds I'll share This lonely view With the birds I'll share This lonely view With the birds I'll share This lonely view... ------------------ One tequila, two tequila, three tequila, floor.
I got it, and he's a geek. ------------------ "Now it is more clear that it doesn't make sense." -- HeyPeeism at its convoluted best.
