I went to an Astros/Braves game with my dad, little brother (6 at the time), and son: My brother: "The Braves suck. I hate the Braves." My dad: "We shouldn't hate anyone" Me: "It's okay to hate the Braves. How could you not hate them?" Brother: "Yeah, I definitely hate the Braves" It was awesome.
Thanks for all the replies! For some reason I thought you guys were already 2-3 years into your "rebuilding" phase, but I guess it is a little more recent than that, so maybe it's OK to cut ownership some slack. It's also a little strange to see ownership come out and just plain not contend, and not even pretend to contend. People talk smack about the A's and our money woes all the time, but no one ever says we tank a season, second-lowest payroll in baseball or not. It's kind of similar to how Les refused to let Morey throw out a losing basketball team even though that might have made things easier in the draft. Honestly, you guys were paid $70 million by the rest of MLB and have revenue sharing each year to boot. I'd be pretty skeptical that all of that money is literally going into the farm system or into international player scouting/development. But hey, if in a few seasons the Astros are the toast of the AL West and your owner is spending $100 million a season, then I guess that will be proof enough, right? If, on the other hand, your owners keep using the convenient excuse of "no stars" coming out of the farm system to not spend any money, then we'll have our answer there as well. This is just my friendly way of saying the AL West has a reputation for being a slobberknocker of a division, and if y'all Houston boys want to play with us, then you better get your ass in gear. ;-) P.S. - I know the DH feels like a crap rule for people who are used to NL play, but it actually makes games feel more competitive because there is never a "break" in the lineup. If you're behind, you don't feel like you're handicapped because your pitcher is a free out for the inning, and if you're ahead you can't bank on the opposite happening for the other team and stopping a potential rally. All those outs have to be earned.
Thank you!!!! He's been lurking here recently, which is just too weird for me. When he starts posting here, I'm out. I'll officially retire.
I hope he doesn't know mine!! He stuck to the Dwight Howard thread around the time that was happening...he knew the updates were coming quicker there than anywhere else.
Well, it sort of helps when you had guys like Hudson, Zito and Mulder all pan out at the exact same time after being drafted. If the Astros had that in the farm system at the time of this rebuild, they could get by without having to suck royally. The A's were able to contend earlier in this decade, despite losing Damon/Giambi/Izzy because their starting rotation was the best in baseball. Since then, they've retooled/rebuilt after losing each pitcher in much the same way... but they needed those guys there at the very beginning to stay afloat. The Astros had NOTHING in the farm system... literally, nothing. I don't think its possible to have absolutely nothing in the minors, but the Astros did... and the compounded the issue by having an inflated payroll in the majors without much success (thus, worst of both worlds). Thus, they had to start all over, without much assets. They netted trades of Oswalt/Berkman/Pence/Bourn into some much needed organizational depth. They then utilized the #1 pick with increased overall slot money per round over the last two years to completely overhaul the system. The goal is to have something of substance grown in the farm system, develop, and have success in the majors... all while continuing to have success at growing the farm system so that no lulls commence between contenders (A's, Cardinals, Rays model). But, you gotta start somewhere when you have absolutely nothing. In baseball, where you have to have a farm system grow for a few years before they can play in the majors (unlike basketball), you gotta hit rock bottom to get the most talent in the draft.
Astros want to build a team that competes year in and year out while sustaining one of the better farm systems in baseball. Following the Cardinals model that Luhnow and many of the Astros front office helped create in St Louis. Bud Norris was never considered the future and the Astros never set a goal of being a contender next season. Id say in the next 2-3 years I view the Astros as a team capable of winning the division that starts with Castro, Villar and Altuve at the ML level and Springer, Singleton, Appel, Correa, Folty, Cosart, McCullers, Santana, etc all continuing to develop and put up great numbers in the minors. Astros have truly gone from the worst farm system in baseball to a system I'd be shocked not considered a top five next year this is what the trades have helped kickstart along with two excellent drafts and a third likely on the way starting with Carlos Rodan.
Given the results of this year, I don't think many A's fans think it was a bad trade. The middle of the infield is still where we are (by far) the weakest, and Lowrie is basically the only good thing coming out of that whole situation. Ideally, he would be playing 2B every day and we'd have a decent-fielding shortstop who can at least hit replacement level for that position. As it stands now, having Lowrie play SS means we are suffering defensively, but as long as he keeps hitting then no one will complain (too loudly). And it's not like we have many options. I hate to make the comparison, but he's kind of like the 2000's version of Jeter - glove isn't all that great but hits like a monster so it's tolerable until he can't hit anymore. Chris Carter was always an on-again off-again prospect for the A's, so having him move on to a place where he could have consistent AB's and figure out if he can stick in the majors was probably best for him. We already had a few power bats from the right side who could actually play the field (Seth Smith, et. al.), so losing him wasn't a big deal. In all honesty I think after his first few stints, the organization got tired of waiting for him to fix that massive hole in his swing, so they decided to let him go and give that farm system playing time to someone else. Guy always showed flashes of power, but after already being relegated to 1B/DH, you need to be a very good, consistent hitter to justify a spot in the majors. Brad Peacock is one that a lot of us were sad to see traded, but in all honesty this is the A's we're talking about. Billy Beane is like that guy who shows up to the animal shelter, and all those bright-eyed puppies are MLB-caliber starting pitchers who run lovingly into his arms. We actually have a bit of a logjam at SP, and if you looked closely at all of the candidates, Peacock was probably the right one to let go. While his peripherals were always good (particularly strikeouts), his walk and flyball issues were actually continuing to deteriorate the higher up he went in the minors. This seemed to support the idea that he was essentially getting by purely in his knuckle-curve: high strikeouts, high walks, and getting hammered on every other pitch. But without a meaningful stint in the majors it would be hard to know whether or not that was a good trade - he could turn out to be a fantastic #2, in which case I would say we lost in the trade just by losing him. The big question mark on whether the trade is worth it will be Max Stassi. Well, if we get to the World Series or win it all, then sure, I'd say it was worth it. But purely in terms of player value, Stassi is where you guys could probably come out ahead. Ignoring their defensive or pitch-framing value, catchers who can hit are actually not all that common, and have become an increasingly-valuable commodity over the past decade or so. If he makes it to the majors and just puts up a league-average hitting line, that probably makes him more valuable over the long term than anything Lowrie could produce for us. That being said, catching prospects have it pretty rough, just like their major-league counterparts. His legs could give out at any time, and once that happens his career is pretty much over... In all honesty if I were you guys I'd find him another position (a la Scott Hatteberg) and just let him hit.
It actually, technically started when they dealt Oswalt and Berkman in 2010 - but I think most of us would pinpoint the Pence (July 2011 – or was it June? Regardless, summer of ’11) deal as the legitimate start, due to its terrific return (Cosart, Singleton and Villar – it was Villar, right? Ruiz? It all runs together…). After that season, the sale of the team was officially approved. The team has unequivocally stated that priority 1 was to rebuild the farm system; they took a two-step approach: add quantity, followed by quality. They unloaded guys (Bourn and Wandy, for instance) for what were pure quantity grabs. Pence brought back quality and it looks like they're hoping Veras and Norris will complete the quality phase. They were concurrently adding top draft picks, smartly managing their allocated funds to help snag first round talents in later rounds – most think these past two drafts have been very promising. You can't imagine how barren the system was. Now that the farm is more robust, we'll start to see these guys moved to the bigs; it started with Cosart and Villar - but they are merely the appetizer. Springer will be up next month and he's the first really exciting everyday piece. Next will be Singleton and a slew of promising young arms. I would guess, by September of next year, we'll see most of the core nucleus in Houston.
Sorry...our rivals were ripped from us. Thanks Selig. The approach that Crain is putting together, is to be competitive long past 5 years. Our farm system before and after our WS appearance was seriously depleted. Bust prospects and a failure to sign draft picks destroyed this franchise's current competitiveness. With that being said, I think the A's, Angels and Rangers should be put on notice, that after next years draft, the Astros may be able to field 3 aces and a dominant closer real soon. Also, some very promising bats finally showing up, could yield enough offense to beat anyone. I'm actually thrilled to see what happens next. Even if it means another 100 loss season.
Just to address the common misconception (it's not your fault, I blame the talking heads on ESPN): The last time the Big 3 pitched for the A's was in 2004. In 2005 Mulder and Hudson were traded and only Zito was left, and the A's went 88-74 (2nd in the AL West). The last time Zito pitched for the A's was in 2006, where the A's had a record of 93-69 and made it to the ALCS. So for two years after the Big 3 were around, the A's were still a contending team. Granted, we had a bit of a funk after that, but as I mentioned in my first post, the cycles generally run around ~5 years for the teams in the AL West (at least they have for the past couple of decades). And during the 2007-2011 drought, the team never dropped below 74 wins even though they played in the same division as the 96-win Rangers and the 86-win Angels. I think I understand where you guys are coming from re: the Astros rebuilding. If you have absolutely no prospects and your payroll is still ridiculous, it's probably a sign that you need to get rid of everything and start over from scratch. I really hope it does pan out for you, because we definitely could use another team around to help beat up on the Angels. ;-)
I don't see the AL West as this juggernaut division that so many dress it up to be. I also DESPISE the ridiculous DH rule. I understood your reasons for enjoying it (please don't rehash them) but for me half the strategy is gone. And you have "baseball players" who only play half the game. For me it's still a cheap gimmick that should just go away. I understand that many others don't feel that way. But I still don't like AL "baseball".
The Big 3 didn't just help the A's when they only pitched together. They probably brought more value to the A's when they were traded. I can't tell you either of the trades off the top of my head, but I think the larger point is that the players they received from those 3 helped keep the farm system flush with talent, and therefore, the major league ballclub at least competitive.
