what makes you gay???

Hey, we just had a big long argument thread yesterday mostly between two conservatives.

I long for the days when every thread devolved into a Simpsons reference.

 

There are a few gay couples who have been together over 50 years. If that's not survival I don't know what is.

I still don't understand the obsession with having kids and the notion that it somehow makes a relationship more legitimate.

What about infertile straight couples or those who don't want to have kids? Are they inferior to a breeder couple? Does it mean they love each other less?

There's more to life than making babies.

 

But life in general would not continue without babies.

 

don't worry. I don't think we're gonna run out of them anytime soon.

 

Of course, I've known gay people who had kids (accepted their homosexuality late in life after a marriage and kids). And at this point in our evolution, we do have the ability to reproduce without sex (through in vitro fetilization, etc).

Maybe if homosexual men agreed to donate sperm at their local sperm banks it would legitimize their relationships. Because at that point, they are doing their part (perhaps more than their part) to keep the species going.

 

Good point outlaw.

I've been married for six years. I love my husband with all my heart, yet we don't have any children and we don't plan to. According to some of the things I've read in this thread, we're going against the natural order of life.

I find the assumption that EVERYONE must have children to be bizarre at best, offensive at worst.

 

That's descriptive. I don't know why people try to make normative statements out of all of this. Hey outlaw! It's your responsibility to ensure the integrity of the enttiiiiiire species..

Smokey the Bear: Only you can stop forest fires.
Voice: me? *gulp*

 

That's still sexual reproduction.

p.s. Mrs JB, I totally agree. I've been very happily married for 6.5 years. Pardon the arrogance, but I think that my wife and I have something that a few breeders I've met would die for.

 

Yes, but it's reproduction without the physical act of sex. I didn't say it wasn't sexual reproduction. I said it was reproduction without sex. Not exactly the same thing.

 

I never said outlaw had to do his part to keep the human race going. But if every single person in the world was gay it would be rather hard to continue life.

 

mrpaige,

yeahhhh I know; I'm just trying to justify the male gender to my wife.

but honnney, look at awl of the vawiability fwom having sesual wepwoduction!! soooo much ginetack diwersity!

 

Gay sperm donations could soon be illegal

If the FDA has its way, gay men will be taken out of the gene pool. That is how Leland Traiman, owner of Alameda-based Rainbow Flag Health Services and Sperm Bank, sees it.

The 49-year-old nurse practitioner has been fighting for the rights of gay men to donate sperm since the FDA first proposed regulations in 1999 that would ban such a practice.

As the FDA edges closer to making its decision, Traiman, who owns the only sperm bank specifically for the lesbian and gay community, is preparing for the worst.

What Traiman fears is that the FDA will base its decision on a study done by the Center for Disease Control between 1994 and 2000, where it surveyed gay men between the ages of 15-29 and found a higher prevalence of HIV there than in the heterosexual community.

Although the CDC interviewed nearly 3,500 men in its study, the results are skewed, Traiman said, because the CDC only conducted it with men who were single and frequently had sex with several partners, and not with gay men in monogamous relationships.

"The FDA is a clear and present threat to gay families and right now they plan to go whole-hog with their discriminatory policies," said Traiman, who went to speak to the FDA in December during its final public comment session.

While there are currently no federal regulations on sperm donation, a majority in the self-regulating industry follows CDC guidelines. Those guidelines, which include all tissue and organ donations, specifically exclude "men who have had sex with another man in the past five years" because of the incidence of HIV in gay men.

But those over-arching guidelines don't make sense for sperm donation. Unlike blood and internal organs, which cannot be frozen, sperm collected at sperm banks is frozen and quarantined for six months and then retested. Because the window period for HIV infection is two to three months, this process would effectively screen for HIV.

"It's based on outdated science," said Maura Riordan, the executive director of the Sperm Bank of California, in Berkeley, which is the only other sperm bank in the country, aside from Rainbow Flag, which accepts gay men's sperm.

"If you look at the science and the screening in place, it doesn't make sense. We have a system that isn't broken, it's not like (HIV positive) men are getting through the screening. It's not going to happen."

As with the more than 100 sperm banks across the country, Traiman's clients undergo intense screening, STD testing and a sperm freezing and testing process. Of all men who intend to donate sperm, only about 10 percent are accepted.

Things such as family history of sickle cell anemia, mental illness or alcoholism disqualify many candidates.

It is the freezing process that eliminates others. Only one in six men's sperm will survive the six-month deep freeze, Traiman said.

Now that the FDA has closed the public discussion, Traiman and Riordan have their doubts that anything will change from the current proposals.

"I am scared for my business," Traiman said. "But I am much more scared for my community and the inappropriate believe that says gay men are the source of this disease."

 

Funny how you're more respectful to the gay guy than to the straight guy who thinks there's nothing wrong with being gay.

Yes, if every single person in the world was gay it would be hard to continue the species. Is this why you think homosexuality is wrong? Because it's going to cause the end of the human race?

I know. "Whatever."

 

Oh, that can be arranged...

Homer: Ohmygod Ohmygod Ohmygod! Oh my god! I danced with a gay! Marge, Lisa, promise me you won't tell anyone. [shaking Lisa] Promise me!!

Marge: You're being ridiculous.

Homer: Am I, Marge? Am I? Think of the property values. Now we can never say only straight people have been in this house.

Marge: I'm very sorry you feel that way, because John invited us all out for a drive today, and we're going.

Homer: Woah-ho-ho, not me! And not because John's gay, but because he's a sneak. He should at least have the good taste to mince around and let everyone know that he's... that way.

Marge: What on Earth are you talking about?

Homer: You know me, Marge. I like my beer cold, my TV loud and my homosexuals fa-laming.

 

Sexuality (heck, throw in intimacy and plain ole' life) is not as clear cut as we're raised to think. All I have to say is that you're far from alone in being confused. You'll have to come to our own conclusions about what is right and what is wrong, but do me a favor and don't beat yourself up over it. It's not your fault you feel confused. Really.

It's good you're asking these questions outside your own head. If you haven't already, don't forget to talk to people you trust. If you're of any religious/spiritual persuasion, don't forget to ask for spiritual guidance as well. I agree with Isabel about the importance of that, but that's just me. But you don't and shouldn't have to work out things like this by yourself, even if eventually it may come down to you having to decide something for yourself.

 

But, is that honestly a good argument? Does anyone really believe that the species is going to become extinct due to homosexuality??? That has no basis in any sort of reality.

I'm pretty sure we can find much more efficient and realistic ways to wipe out mankind...cough...globalwarming...cough.

 

Being gay doesn't make one incapable of having hetero sex. It's not like they don't have the parts or the ability or anything. That's why this argument about natural selection seems terrible to me. Being gay simply means you prefer one sex over another, it doesn't mean you're not physically capable of reproductive sex.

If Outlaw were the last man on Earth I'm sure he would take one for the team and help us save mankind.

 

Great now I'm gonna have nightmares.
There are still turkey basters in this post-apocalyptic scenario of yours right?

 

1. We are not talking about Gay relationships. We talking about homosexuality. [Same sex sex]

OK
I think several factors contribute to homosexuality. I also think it may differ from person to person.

EXPERIENCES - I think ignoring enviromental factors is as ridiculous as ignoring potential biological factors. The lifestyles one is exposed to. . . the relationships through out ones life will shape one's views and ones potential to be a homosexual.

Genetic - honestly it is possible yet unproven [not unlike the FAT gene . . i still think fat is a choice] HOWEVER, IF it does have a genetic component IMO it is a genetic anomoly at worse a extremely recessive gene at best. [here is where one can get into trouble]

1. I don't consider Homosexuality NATURAL. Ms Jeff most references to homosexuality in nature tend to come from unnatural situations [overpopulation, lack of enough on one sex etc] THAT BEING SAID . . condoms are unnatural. . . .Oral sex is unnatural . . .lot of things are unnnatural . . . THAT DOES NOT MAKE THEM BAD.

SEX in it's base utilization is to procreate. . . . nothing else [LORD KNOWS IT HAS A BUNCH OF SIDE BENEFITS but the main reason is to procreate.] Any sex that CANNOT acheive this functions is unnatural [i.e. Infertility, low sperm counts, homosexuality]

BTW - IF it is genetic. . or chosen . . or a disease . . or a mutant alien death imperative. . . .. DOES IT MATTER? Does the explaination justify anything?

If someone chooses that . . . does that mean it's ok to be a bigot from them . . but if it's genetic is automatically makes them ok? I don't beleive so . . . IT is an interesting argument . .but it is ultimately irrelevent .. . people are people . . .so treat them like people. . equally. Being gay is not a choice that should incur discrimination . . . . KILLING A PERSON . . that is a choice that should incur a little discrimination . . . .BEATING A GUY WHO IS CUFFS!!! . . . yea that is something that may make one discrimination.

Rocket River
RECAP: Environment or even a potential genetic anomoly.