What Makes JVG A Great Coach

Player loyalty? These Rocket players aren't loyal to him. JVG has no loyalty to these players either. If it was up to him, he'd ship half these players out.

JVG has NEVER changed his style or his attitude. Respect? People that work with him on a daily basis don't respect him as a person. He's just a big NY Moron.

The ONLY reason why the Knicks were good under JVG is that the system and players have been in place way before he took over. He inherited an already playoff bound team. All he did was use the same Riley playbook and the same Riley players. He never had to start with a brand new cast of players that were a generation or two beneath him. Great Coaches learn to ADAPT, INSPIRE, and MOTIVATE. I don't see much of adapting on his part. JVG A Great coach? At this time... NO!

...and the "I hate JVG" club continues to grow each day!

 

Rocket Rich - you're reaching here and it's another instance where you're spewing blind VG hate. I don't have time to refute every point but as far as not having players adapt ... he had Allan Houston and Latrell Sprewell co-existing on a team that made it to the finals.

 

I'm with ya Rocket Rich. I don't see the greatness either. He continues to baffle with his lack of offense. Defense - I don't see where any coach starting Cato and JJ over the team last year wouldn't have lower scores and "improved" defense. Maybe that equates to OK or "good" but great - Pahleeeezzz.....

 

He's a terrible coach, terrible!! The players run the asylum.

 

A "GREAT" caoch is associated with winning a CHAMPIONSHIP title or he is constantly taking lesser teams and TEACHING them to become contenders ala Larry Brown or Jim Parcells. JVG did a very good job in NY but not to be considered great by this definition. He inherited an experienced core of veteran players and failed to win a championship with them. He has recognizable strengths, however, his weaknesses are just as glaring. Eveyone knew that when he came here, he'd bring a brilliant offense but an anemic offense. Low and behold, it's all true. His philosophy is that great defenses win championships and until he can do so, no entitlements will be bestowed upon him. This is his first year as Rockets coach and therefore judgement should be reserved until he wins the NBA title, his contract is over, or until he's fired, whichever should come first.

 

Sorry no edit feature available. Meant to say:
Eveyone knew that when he came here, he'd bring a brilliant defense but an anemic offense.

 

Jeff Van Gundy is absolutely, postively better than Rudy. Get over it.

Let's get the obvious out of the way: Rudy

1) Rudy was a nice guy. He was respected and liked by players and fans.

2) Rudy's team continued to use ISO's, even after zones were implemented. This led to all the one-on-one basketball I'm guessing all you guys want to bring back?

3) Rudy had a major health issue, that hopefully now is resolved. Not getting into whether he was forced out or not, but he needed to 'resign', mainly factoring in his health.

4) He missed the playoffs 4 years in a row. 4.


Now For JVG:

1) See #4 for Rudy. JVG has coached for 37 games. You really want to bring back a four season lottery coach to replace someone who has a winning record and playoff seed as it stands after only 33 games?

2) JVG's defensive schemes are FAR superior to Rudy's. Far. JVG is a "master" at defense, something that has helped the Rockets pull out close games, even with shooting woes.

3) How many ISO's have you seen this year? You could count more ISO's in one game last year than all season this year. Finally, we move without the ball and are making the extra pass. MUCH more entertaining than watching one-on-one all game.

4) Our offense. We're 3rd to last in the league. "Fire JVG!"

please. You want to know what the problem is? It's not the coach at all, it's the players. We are DEAD LAST in FGA per game. Why? Turnovers. They are skewing our offensive output, and it's being blamed on the coach. When you are last in the league in shots per game, it should be a given you'd be bottom of the barrell in points per game.

Yes, Steve Francis is making long strides at distrubiting the ball real well this season and involving his teammates.

Yes, he also still has a problem with TO's that needs to be fixed.

No, the Rockets aren't THAT bad of an offensive team. They're third in three-point %, 20th in FG %. Cut the TO's, and the offensive problems are fixed.

I said this in an earlier thread, so I'll repeat myself:

Rudy was soft. We all knew it. It was a loose ship that never accomplsihed everything. We wanted someone who would be tough, and bring discipline to the ISO team.

We got it.

But now people whine that Van Gundy is an arsehole to his players, he needs to be nicer. F*ck that, I personally couldn't care what the players feel. They had four years to do what they wanted, and didn't accomplish squat. JVG is what this team needed, and even though we're struggling early, I am absolutely pleased. Rocket Rich NYC, where I don't doubt your "sources, I believe you report too much opinion with your "inside info". I doubt players feelings about the coach have been linked to solely your sources, and not to the press. Please, just report facts.

 

Wow, cut down on ISOs this year....surprise, surprise.

Thank Stern and crew for the zone.
Try running an ISO with a bunch of athletic freaks covering areas instead of playing man to man.

Great defensive coach.......
Hardly uses the zone to the Rockets' benefit.

Wow, we're one of the top defensive teams in a year when no one except a few teams can hit sh}{t.

This @sswipe is the epitome of overrated.

 

I don't recall too many people here called JVG a "great" coach, but the media people did.

People gave too much credit to the guy for what he did with the Knicks. The Nets went to the final twice, but Byron Scott couldn't get credit remotely close to that. The Knicks team JVG took over had a system in place, and that has always in the playoff before he took over. Look at the players in that team, Ewing was not at his prime, but still the best center in the East; then you got Alan Houston & Spree, both made the all-star team; you had Oakley who always gave you solid minute on both ends (his mid-range jump shot was very effective in his last few years). I just don't see any other East team clearly better than that Knicks.

I think JVG is an average coach, with some good defensive ability from Pat Riley school system. He hasn't showed any offensive coaching ability at all in this league. To think about it, it's incredible when you had guys like Houston & Spree, still you couldn't have your team score more points.


--daoshi

 

Bringing back some points would be nice...

Missing the playoffs will happen when you rebuild. Hard to believe, but true. Any coach would make the playoffs with this team this year. The balance of power has shifted. Gundy would have missed the playoffs 3 of those years for sure, probably 4, had he been coaching them at the time. The "4 years no playoffs" line has always been LAME. It's more like a campaign slogan a politician would use.

He's a master that has gotten the team from 5th or 6th to 2nd in the league in D.

Tossing the ball around the horn more apparently looks prettier, but doesn't produce better results. Who cares if guys are throwing the ball to each other and running around? Maybe Norman Dale. The team is not scoring, period.

The core players are the same and the role players are better than last year, yet the offense is worse. The team turned the ball over less last year, and that was while having to adjust to Yao Ming. Why are you so sure it's all the players' fault? Why do you think the team is last in shots per game? Does that have nothing to do with the coach either?

Yes, they are. A team with Steve Francis, Yao Ming, Cuttino Mobley, Maurice Taylor, etc, should NOT be 27th in the league in scoring.

What should they have accomplished? What year(s) should they have been a playoff team? More of the campaign sound-bite stuff. This is dumb. They (Rudy) had Yao Ming for 65 games, with no training camp or pre-season.

 

How am I reaching? JVG DID INHERIT a playoff Knick team. JVG did use Riley's playbook (and continues to do so). So how Great is a coach that uses the same system that was in place prior to him being the head man?

These current Rocket players DON'T PERSONALLY LIKE JVG! So while I am hating on JVG I have every reason to be concerned. So to answer this thread - JVG IS NOT A GREAT COACH!

 

As long as we're winning and in the playoffs, I don't care how many points we score. Would you rather score 93 ppg last year and miss the playoffs or score 87 this year and make it? Personally, I'd rather be in the playoffs.

I agree, Denver had every excuse to miss the playoffs for however long. But what you don't understand, lame as it sounds, the rockets were never all out rebuilding. Steve Francis, Hakeem, Shandon Anderson, Cuttino Mobley, Mo Tay - there's no excuse in there to miss the playoffs with that personal. Olajuwon was old, yes, but he wasn't dead weight, so don't give me that BS. No, any coach would not make the playoffs. Chaney can't even win a game when he has Marbury, Houston, Van Horn, Kurt Thomas, etc. A coach isn't some kind of variable you can switch in out and expect the same results, as you may seem to think. And no, you have no idea what JVG would've done with the team the past four years. Neither do I, that's why I'm not claiming he would have taken them to the playoffs. But to see he wouldn't is silly.

That statistic from last year is misleading. I think it was GATER, or possibly someone else, who pointed out half a point or so less and we would've been the 13th or so. Wow. Steve plays defense now. Cato is, finally, a real defensive presence. Cuttino is playing alot better defense. Hell, even MoT is rebounding. The difference is night and day.

The team has also played 30+ games together in a new system as opposed to 4 years in the same one. Another factor you easily forget: when you actually play defense, you don't have as much energy when you go back on offense. It was easy last year to watch our team save their energy for when they could go one-on-one. Yay Lottery.

So you agree that JJ is a better pickup for the Rockets than Posey? Honestly, that's exactly how I feel, but for some reason I just thought you were of another opinion. Yes, JVG does have alot slower-paced games. We needed a change of pace - Rudy's "fast break style" wasn't taking us anywhere. With new personel, it's easy to understand why the ball is turned over more. Although that's no excuse, I agree that this is a problem that has to be improved on if we're gonna even dream about competiting deep into the playoffs.

This would have good logic behind it if it were not for Yao Ming having a terrible year thus far. Yao does not dominate the games, so you cannot tell me the "2nd year Yao Ming" would've made that big of a difference than "rookie Yao". It's not a campaign, it's called sports. I am and will always be a Rockets fan. I, like most fans should be, will not stand for losing. You seem to think it was ok for them to lose. Not me. I still go and went to every game I get a chance to, but other fans have not taken my approach. And there lies your attendance problems. Once JVG reaches the playoffs, the attendance will climb, and hopefully, the TC will have the atomosphere the Summit once had.

 

That's all really irrelevant. Hope you had fun watching other teams take the Rocket's place in the playoffs. That tenure is over now.

 

We had the disagreement when you first brought the "50 wins" yardstick up and I'm going to remind you again. You are making that analysis based upon your expectiation that the Rockets record would improve because are/were "young"...regardless of the coach. 36 games later, I'm going to remind you now as I did then...you are too heavily discounting the fact that no other teams have/will improved. You are expecting the Rockets to be the only team improving. That is the essence of your point.

 

I don't agree with your assessment Gater. I don't know what RR thinks obviously, but I agree with what he is stating based on the fact they should of got 50 wins last year if RT didn't go down and Smith's tenure wasn't so miserable....

 

ricerocket -
These are the cold hard facts...

* The most games the 2002-03 Rockets were above .500 was 23-15 after Francis' 44 point game on Jan 17, 2003.
* After the 23-15 high-water mark, the Rockets were 12-15 under Rudy T. They were 35-30 when RT took his leave of absence.
* Under Larry Smith, the Rockets were 8-11.
* The Rockets finished 1 game behind the Suns but the Suns had mathematically clinched the 8th spot with 3 games remaining and rested their starters. The Rockets finished 3-0 while the Suns went 1-2. Look at the minutes:

http://www.nba.com/games/20030415/PHOPOR/boxscore.html

* The Rockets let James Posey walk and signed journeyman Jim Jackson to replace him.

The 23-15 high water mark equates to 49 wins and that is assuming the Rockets were really a .600 team. In my opinion, they weren't. 22 of those 38 games were home games and 10 of the 23 wins were over non-playoff teams.


Now, if you want to look at those facts and declare that with Rudy T and youthful player improvements the Rockets were a lock to win 50 games, I couldn't disagree more. I would take a look at these closing 2002-03 records and note the improvements to each team (Malone, Payton, Walker, Jamison, Brad Miller, Cassell, Sprewell, Olawokandi, Hedo, Mercer, Rasho).

Dallas Mavericks 60-22
San Antonio Spurs 60-22
Sacramento Kings 59-23
Minnesota Timberwolves 51- 31
Los Angeles Lakers 50-32
Portland Trailblazers 50-32

A 50 win season means you were guaranteeing the Rockets were a lock for the #6 seed. Way too optimistic. Again, I repeat....only if the entire league remained static talent-wise is a 50 win base realistic.