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What it means to be “woke”

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by durvasa, Apr 19, 2022.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    ChatGPT:


    Conclusion

    For general knowledge, Wikipedia is typically more reliable due to its transparency and citations. For contextual explanations or creative problem-solving, LLMs can be more helpful, but users should verify critical facts independently. Combining both resources often provides the best results
     
  2. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  3. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
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    you can't define woke, but you know it when you see it
     
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  4. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    @Salvy
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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  6. Kemahkeith

    Kemahkeith Member
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    Well at least they aren't beating up soccer fans.
    So I guess this is progress.
     
  7. CrixusTheUndefeatedGaul

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    You woke clowns need Jesus as your foundation.
     
  8. Salvy

    Salvy Member

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  9. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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    @Salvy
    @ROXRAN
    @Rocket River
    race in dungeons and dragons isn’t about white and black folks
    It’s like elves and orcs
    Woke
     
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  10. JHarden713

    JHarden713 Member

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    Means to be Joy Taylor, speaking about women's rights, but was gonna accuse her boss (that she was fuc.king) of sexual assault if he were to fire her.
     
  11. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Nate Silver sent me down a rabbit hole on what woke is. I left in the links that try to find an exact definition of woke, which is deliberately made vague.

    https://www.natesilver.net/p/why-liberalism-and-leftism-are-increasingly
    Why liberalism and leftism are increasingly at odds

    ...
    The mainstream media almost always uses the former definition (“liberal” just means left). However, in Hayek’s view — and mine — we should return to the original definition of liberalism. That’s because liberalism describes something distinctive. It doesn’t suffice to view liberalism as a halfway point between socialism and conservatism, Hayek thought, because in important ways it differs from both, namely in its elevation of individual rights and suspicion of central authority. Instead, he imagined a triangle that looked like this, with socialism and conservatism as two flanks and liberalism in the third corner:

    In the years following the fall of the Soviet Union, the distinction between “socialism” and “liberalism” gradually came to seem less necessary. Instead, the connotation of “socialism” shifted from “something adjacent to Communism” to “countries like Sweden with high taxes, free health care and tasteful furniture”. If you’re a moderate liberal like me, then Sweden-style democratic socialism might be somewhat to the left of your ideal point. But it’s still well within the acceptable range of outcomes — particularly since Sweden is a canonically individualistic, culturally liberal, WEIRD country.

    However, the purpose of this essay is to argue that socialism now has a worthy successor in the Hayekian triangle — what for purposes of this essay I’ll call Social Justice Leftism (SJL) but is more commonly referred to as “wokeism”.

    Proponents of SJL usually dislike variations on the term “woke”, but the problem is that they dislike almost every other term as well. And we need some term for this ideology, because it encompasses quite a few distinctive features that differentiate it both from liberalism and from traditional, socialist-inflected leftism. In particular, SJL is much less concerned with the material condition of the working class, or with class in general. Instead, it is concerned with identity — especially identity categories involving race, gender and sexuality, but sometimes also many others as part of a sort of intersectional kaleidoscope. The focus on identity isn’t the only distinctive feature of SJL, but it is at the core of it.

    SJLs and liberals have some interests in common. Both are “culturally liberal” on questions like abortion and gay marriage. And both disdain Donald Trump and the modern, MAGA-fied version of the Republican Party. But I’d suggest we’ve reached a point where they disagree in at least as many ways as they agree. Here are a few dimensions of conflict:

    1. SJL’s focus on group identity contrasts sharply with liberalism’s individualism.

    2. SJL, like other critical theories that emerged from the Marxist tradition, tends to be totalizing. The whole idea of systemic racism, for instance, is that the entire system is rigged to oppress nonwhite people. Liberalism is less totalizing. This is in part because it is the entrenched status quo and so often is well-served by incremental changes. But it’s also because liberalism’s focus on democracy makes it intrinsically pluralistic.

    3. SJL, with its academic roots, often makes appeals to authority and expertise as opposed to entrusting individuals to make their own decisions and take their own risks. This is a complicated axis of conflict because there are certainly technocratic strains of liberalism, whereas like Hayek I tend to see experts and central planners as error-prone and instead prefer more decentralized mechanisms (e.g. markets, votes, revealed preferences) for making decisions.

    4. Finally, SJL has a radically more constrained view on free speech than liberalism, for which free speech is a sacred principle. The SJL intolerance for speech that could be harmful, hateful or which could spread “misinformation” has gained traction, however. It is the predominant view among college students and it is becoming more popular in certain corners of the media and even among many mainstream Democrats.
    Since the October 7 Hamas terrorist attacks and Israel’s subsequent invasion of Gaza, I’ve sometimes heard people express surprise that other people they knew (whether in their real lives or on social media) turned out to be more pro-Israel or pro-Palestine than they thought. To me, it’s almost been the opposite: the reactions have been highly predictable. Leftists tend to take the Palestinian side, and liberals the Israeli one; I think it was easier for me to see this because I’ve long been sensitive to the difference between leftists and liberals. Furthermore, these views tend to be correlated with other issues that divide liberals and leftists, such as free speech and even COVID restrictions.3

    Why is this? In some sense maybe it shouldn’t be this way —


     
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  12. AroundTheWorld

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  13. AroundTheWorld

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  14. tinman

    tinman 999999999
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  15. Salvy

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    Imagine congratulating a man for being black and not for his accomplishments. Glad he didn't play into it, she was probably thinking he was going to raise his fist and yell Wakanda forever as a photo was snapped that would end up on Time magazine with her as the reporter that saved the world from racism....
     
  16. AroundTheWorld

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  17. AroundTheWorld

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  18. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Didn't realize people were complaining about trans people using the men's bathroom as well.
     
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  19. AroundTheWorld

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  20. GOATuve

    GOATuve Member

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    Good man. ESPN can't help themselves anymore. Don't know why anyone watches that trash outside of games
     
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