Jeff, excellent post.... while I dont agree with all of it, much of it is quite on spot. MM, The differences you are taking about, I dont see where you got this from. Yes, you are making Jesus seem like a great figure and all, and I agree with it, but the part about how Mohammad(pbuh) is considered a warrior who conquered nations to spread his faith. IMO he just took the lands back. FYI, Mohammed was also persecuted by the people of Mecca and taif, maybe worse than what happened to Jesus. Anyone who even made contact with him or his family were put on a lockdown, no one was to sell food, trade, or even give them water during this period. He lost his Uncle and his wife during this time. He then Migrated to Medinah and even there the MUSLIMS were attacked by the infidels(WHICH IS JUST A WORD FOR NON MUSLIM, you know in translation donley means ass, but we dont react to those words the same now do we). The people of Mecca tried to murder Muhammed. He just defended himself, and at a point it becomes retarted not to just take over them, especially if you are continually being attacked ( see 9-11 and afghanistan). Unlike with Jesus and his followers the muslims actually faught back and won their right to live. Jesus was put on a cross and became the greatest Martyr ever, But just because Muhammed didnt die he is seen as a Warrior/tyrant, etc. I think that is ridiculous.
A vast majority of the "terrorists" happen to be classified as such, just because they are still just trying to get the lands of their forefathers back, Agreed that they are doing this the wrong way, but when you are helpless, and in anger that the world isnt helping out in any ways, You will do anything to fight back, even if it means disobeying your religion(suicide) or killing innocent lives while you do it( again against islam). It is sad that many of them are brainwashed into thinking this is a holy act and whatnot, but it is a FACT that this is wrong. Its not about conquering other religions, IMO its all their because they are in fear of being conquered by other religions, and fail to realize that this isnt the case anymore. The Muslim religion is a religion of peace. The first thing we are taught as children is to respect our elders, no matter who it is. our teachers, no matter what religion/skin color/race they are, treat our neighbours like we would our family members. Then there is the part of Islam that unfortunately has been fillled with So many battles, just defending the right to survive. Many have taken this in the wrong way and justify this as a reason to attack innocent people, and this is wrong no doubt. And there is no doubt that every other religion has terrorists. Many are just ignored or are not classified as terrorists. The KKK, Crusades, Germany(withthe Holocust),the acts against Bosnia, were all terrorist actions, but were never classified as such, they are just shown as struggles of a country growing up. But when a Muslim goes out and even fights a battle, he is labled a terrorist.
Heck USA sponsors television that depicts Islam in as negative light as possible. Most people aren't upset with the government in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, UAE, Oman, etc... so I dont know what that comment was there for.
fair points, adeel...and i'm really not trying to demean your faith. it's just that i hear people say, "jihad doesn't mean an actual war...it's spiritual...it's metaphor." but clearly for mohammed, the author, it was not metaphor.
When you sit here and compare Islam with Christianity and Juddaism, you neglect the fact that Islam says that Juddaism and Christianity are, in their TRUE AND ORIGINAL FORM, from Allah. How could you say Islam is the most violent religion? Isn't it Juddaism and Christianity that believe anyone who doesn't believe in THEIR specific religion goes to Hell? That's not true for Islam. Jeff put it real well when he said it's here at the wrong place and time. Lack of education, poverty and oppression are the main reasons for terrorism. One religion is bound to have more opressed people than others, and Islam just happens to be that one. You don't expect all religions to have an exact equal number of oppressed and miseducated people did you? It's all a matter of misinterpretation. Percentage wise, less Westerners are aware of their Religion than Middle Easterners. So naturally, there will be more misinterpretation and more blame placed on religion in this part of the world than that part.
It's not a metaphor. Who said it's a metaphor? But if you think it's going on, or it's close-by or it already happened, then that's not true.
wait...just because the majority said it doesn't mean it's right. i mean seriously...telling people that they can't wear a head covering to school that their faith requires of them to wear??? damn, that's freaking harsh. maybe they should make them all shop at the gap, too, so we can eliminate all exterior differences among us. the law is freaking stupid....and people should protest it...peacefully...and work to change it....peacefully. there is zero call for threatened violence...but again, if you read the koran to imply jihad whenever your faith is threatened, this is where you end up.
That doesn't sound like freedom to me. You know, if people in the Middle East were to vote, they'd vote against letting Christians wearing crosses. If that happened, would that be ok with you? No it wouldn't. Islam doesn't force itself on anyone. You can wear a cross in the United Arab Emirates if you damn well like it, and no one's going to stop you. For the very same reason, people in France should be allowed to wear scarves. In essence, the French are telling the Muslim parents that their children MUST sin.
this is the real problem...this isn't government saying it needs to be separate from govt..this is govt saying you simply can't live the life your God demands you live. i have real issues with that.
( The extremely short version, go look it up, I hate to type) The Arab world had been screwed over by the Christian world since the time of the Crusades when we conspired with every mortal enemy we could find to remove them from occupation of the Holy Land. To be more historically immediated however, they were betrayed by England that signed a treaty promising them Arabs self rule for helping defend the oilfields in WW1 but France was allowed to partition Iraq anyway. They were betrayed again by the United States that allowed Zionist to partition Isreal after WW2. (it seemed like a good idea at the time) When faced with domination by vastly superior firepower the only military alternative is guerilla actions. It is a time honored stategy in wars with colonial powers. It has recently yielded a model for success in Viet Nam, but it does require a massive sacrifice of a society's youth. It always takes propagana to inspire young men to die for political causes. We use God and the American way of life just the same as Mulims. It's not too hard to understand how the Mullahs can paint theirs as a desperate cause against the great Satan because our society is dedicated to free choice in contrast to their rigid codes of devotion. The only way out of this age of terror is to win the propagana war. The youth of the Arab world must be made to see that the western political system is inclusive and tolerant and that materialism can provide a better life for their children. But we have about 2,000 years of bad karma to overcome.
Jihad is a real thing, it's by no means a metaphor, I can guarantee that. As for the last point, I read from someone (maybe not you) that all this terrorism is part of Jihad when that's NOT true. Jihad, by definition, is when ALL muslims unite to take over the oppressors. Al Qaeda is NOT all muslims, and they DO NOT represent the Muslim population. You can automatically rule out half the muslim population, since Al Qaeda is from the Sunni sect, and the Shi3a sect make up half the Muslims. So a percentage of half the Muslims in the world may agree with Al Qaeda. By no means a representative sample.
How do you convince Muslims that a material life is better? Life is, at most, 80 or 90 years, while Heaven is eternity. Hmmmm, have nice stuff for 100 years or anything I want for the rest of eternity? See what I'm saying? You have someone on here actually SAYING that materialism is GOOD. That's just wrong.
On the Daily Show last night, Steven Colbert had a fantastic explaination of the historical grievances OBL & others have used to justify their actions. There's a replay at 6 today, yall should watch it. Hilarious.
I agree that AlQaeda does not represent the way that TRUE Muslims are, but saying that Sunni Muslims are the ones that are terrorist is just as wrong, and since when are shiia's half of the Muslim population, last time I checked they were less than a third of the MuslimPop. But thats besides the point... The point is that IN NO WAY is OBL or Al Qaeda Islamic, They may pray, fast, and follow all the other ways of Islam, but a person that commits suicide does not go to Heaven, and also a Murderer will not be forgiven, which is what Al Qaeda has been reputed to do.
I didn't make a judgement that it was good or bad, better or worse. But western civilization is based on materialism and you have to bring them over to that view or continue to be in conflict. The lure of materialism is seductive. The youth of Iran are falling prey more every day. Good food, good entertainment, fun , marrying some you choose to love, working at a challenging job, free time, not whacking yourself with chains on holidays, being clean shaven, p*rn....it's insidious.
It is an actual war, just as Sane said. But it is not for some Gumby-Pokey to decide if Islam is going for Jihad. THere were many territorial disputes in Arabia even after Islam had spread out a lot, there were battles, but were not called Jihad, because people knew that this is wrong, especially to drag a whole religion into a personal problem. But say someone Nukes Mecca, then All Muslims would unify against the country/person and would most definately go to Jihad. Its just the level at which you take it to be a jihad, which is different for each individual. For example A man may think that USA attacking Afhanistan and those Muslims is a war on all Muslims and go out for Jihad, while the same may be said for IRAQ, but in atleast some context those two war were justified. They may seem like a noble deed, and a something that needed to be done to the Muslims in the USA/other countries, it may seem like a war against islam to a muslim sitting on his couch in Palestine reading, "Iraq Bombed".
