frankly, because they say it! OBL talks about us being on Saudi soil and what an affront it is to have infidels on Saudi soil during Gulf War I...particularly female military personnel. because we often find evidence of notes of terrorists who cite to the koran and claim to be defending allah. because they shave their bodies and tell us they look forward to the 40 virgins. the guys who brought down the twin towers were not poor...not by any means. they were not oppressed, in the sense we're talking about in this thread.
but do you really think that the religion itself, alone is what caused the hate? or are they using the religion as a means to an end?
Neither were those who initiated the crusades or the inquisition. It's the conditions that allow the cause to gain traction among the 'common' people.
I had similar concerns from what little of the Koran that I had read regarding infidels, and someone in the BBS explained how the translation left a quite imperfect impression. I wish the search was available, because it was a couple of years ago. And FWIW, similar concerns could be expressed about some passages in the Bible.
If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant, And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; ... Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die. -- Deuteronomy, Chapter 17:2-3,5 glass houses bamma
I have to agree with you that the religion provides some raw material for the terrorist activity and it is often used as a motivating vehicle for the war terrorists are fighting today. But, I think it is only a vehicle and not the root cause. Looking at it in a PolySci kind of way, I see their current struggle as a symptom of hegemonic war -- that the relative inherent power of the Islamic world has begun to increase but the accompanying rewards have not been gained. So, they are being fought for. And, terrorism is being used because they are otherwise outgunned. I'd compare the current situation with the Communist revolutions of the 20th century. These revolutions (in Russia, China, Cuba, Mexico, Vietnam, Korea, etc.) were cast as ideological wars when, in fact (or at least, in my interpretation), they were mostly anti-imperialist wars. They talked zealously and even fanatically about fighting for equality and Socialism, but they were geared mostly toward ending exploitation by foreigners and trying to build economies that could not be invaded again. That doesn't mean individuals didn't believe in Socialism, many did, but the ideology was wrapped around the circumstance and the social forces at work (if you'll excuse the Marxist interpretation of history) that drove these revolutions. Socialism was the ideological vehicle for the real movement. In the same way, I think Islam is a vehicle. I think there is an anti-imperialist tenor to this movement as well, but something else as well, like the preservation of and a demand for respect for the Islamic heritage and religion as legitimate and viable.
I had similar concerns from what little of the Koran that I had read regarding infidels, and someone in the BBS explained how the translation left a quite imperfect impression. I wish the search was available, because it was a couple of years ago. From what I understand, the word infidel simply means "someone who doesn't believe". In American common-use, it now has a negative connotation, but I don't believe that was originally the case.
i don't know...i know osama had very little problem with the US until we started treading on sacred Islamic territory in Saudi. then it was on like donkey kong. i don't think you can ignore the fact that these guys are all claiming to be acting in the name of Allah and citing the Koran, etc., etc., for the purpose of the question that DD posed. we can be politically correct about it all day long, and dance around it...but it doesn't change the fact that SOMETHING about islam is being latched on to for the purpose of violence. agreed that other religions, mine included, have been used for the same.
i work at a call center and what is weird is that i'm reading this and my next caller...the first name is JIHAD! who names someone after THE religious showdown? hi, my name is religious war
Professor Hans Kung has said, "Until there is peace between religions, there can be no peace in the world." People kill and are killed because they cling too tightly to their own beliefs and ideologies. When we believe that ours is the only faith that contains the truth, violence and suffering will surely be the result.
while OBL and the rest of his fanatical site Allah and claim to be doing his work, they still give real secular reasons behind their actions..America did A, B, and C....they just use their religion as a motivational tool
chump -- have you read OBL's statements??? his attitude about the US turned around when we put troops on sacred islamic territory. and again...i'm not saying there aren't other reasons....but that's not the question posed in this thread at all.
I actually think OBL just needs someone to focus the hatred on..and the evil USA is easy to do. Heck, even the governments in the middle east sponser television that depicts the US in as negative light as possible. This way their people will have someone else to blame for their living in squalor, rather than their own governments who are lining their own pockets with oil money while little Mohammed lives in a dumpster full of termites and beetle dung. DD
While I think this French law is dog mess...I think this validates the point that there is a strong element of extremism from Islam right now that is not in the least related to a backlash against poverty or some forced oppression because of US policy. http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,8991515%5E1702,00.html Threats 'linked to headscarf ban' From correspondents in Paris March 17, 2004 THREATS made by a Muslim group against France are linked to a controversial law that bans the wearing of headscarves in state schools, the newspaper that received the threatening letter said today. The two-page letter to Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin "threatens France with reprisal attacks following the February 10 adoption of the law banning the headscarf", Le Parisien news director Christian de Villeneuve said. On February 10, France's lower house of parliament, the National Assembly, voted through the bill banning the wearing of conspicuous religious symbols in state schools. The Senate approved the measure on March 3. De Villeneuve said the letter was delivered to the newspaper's offices by ordinary mail, in a typed envelope addressed to him. He gave it to the journalist dealing with terrorism issues, who then called police to verify the authenticity of the claim. Paris prosecutors quickly opened an inquiry into the matter.
It is crap like this that makes you just throw your hands up and say...SCREW IT.... That is ridiculous....if you don't like the rules that a democracy puts in place, simply LEAVE. DD
of course it is...there are all sorts of stupid laws.... but we don't then solve that by making threats to blow crap up. George Costanza: "We're trying to have a society here!!!"
How bad it could be? At least we have a coalition and allies from all over the world to fight the terrorists. See Lil single-handly fight the evilest goverment/party/people/whatever in the history of human being in in other threads? You gotta respect that.
yeah, trying to make sure your kids aren't being influenced by other people's religions while at school does sound pretty stupid....
