Alright, here's more examples of talent differentials between the 7th and 10th picks. 2005: 7th pick: Could have picked Villanueva, Frye, Diogu (3 guys who have contributed this year) 10th pick and after: Bynum, Vasquez, Korolev, May, McCants, Granger. The only guys here ready to contribute are McCants and Granger, yet they produced significantly less than the 3 available at 7. 2004: 7th pick: Deng, iguodala 10th pick: Luke Jackson, Biedrins, and a ton of high schoolers not ready to contribute, namely Telfair. The most NBA ready player after pick 10 is Nelson, picked at 20. 2003: 7th: Hinrich, Ford 10th: Hayes, Pietrus, Collison 2002: The best example of there being a talent differential here 7th: Nene, Wilcox, Amare (I'd take any of those guys over what we have now) 10th: Butler, Jeffries, Haislip, Boki, Ely, etc. 2001: Solid guys available at both 7 and 10 spot. Jefferson, Murphy, Joe Johnson, Vlad Rad 2000: terrible draft, but solid pros available at both spots. 1999: 7th: Rip, Andre Miller, Marion. 3 guys ready to contribute 10th: Terry, and then many quality long-term projects, such as Maggette, Artest, Kirilenko (who didn't come over until 2001) If recent history is any indication, there is a significant talent drop, in terms of guys being ready to contribute, at the 10th pick compared to the 7th. Not to mention the fact that, as Clutch has posted recently, this draft is only about 7-8 players deep. I could see Sheldon being a solid pro, but after such a long and painful season, I will be disappointed if he is all we end up with. Add to the equation the fact that he doesn't really have star potential like several of the guys ahead of him.
Do you know how many titles have TD brought to the Spurs? Alright, Rox won one more game in a broken season, did it do any good? Oh, JH is a wonderful player---let's play him more next season? On the other hand, if Rox lost, would it do any good? Yes! You get a better pick, you don't care about #7 or #10? You are dumb then... I can't believe some "Rocket fan" actually want a MEANLESS win more than a better pick after a hopeless season.
Once again, the Spurs were LUCKY to get Duncan. They were not mathematically in the best position in the lottery. The Rockets were also LUCKY to get Yao Ming. We were not mathematically in the best position in the lottery. Furthermore, what lineup do you guys propose the rockets trot out there on the floor at this point in the season? Do you actually believe any coach in the NBA is gonna "tank" and put Rick Brunson, Ryan Bowen, Maciej Lampe, Dikembe Mutombo, and David Wesley out there on the floor together? That is in fact delusional. I'm all about allowing our younger players to get more playing time and if they win, they win. If they lose, they lose. Don't be upset about the win itself. Be upset that our youngsters aren't getting enough run. CWWW really said it best.
So what if they're not in the best position? Isn't it the goal to get into the best position possible? If someone told you there were two lottery games, with the same monetary payout, except one is 4 times more likely for you to hit the jackpot... Why would anyone pick the one with the lower rate of success? Yet that's exactly the case between a #7 and a #10 slot. Of course, this doesn't even take into account drafting at 7 vs 10.
lol....dude, are you serious??? you are just coming up with more and more creative ways to skew those stats in favor of your weak aregument. take a look at who was picked 7th, and who was picked 9th. you only get one pick buddy. the fact is, you have to get lucky with your pick. there will be a handful of players that we can have at our pick who will go on to blossom, it's just a matter of lucking into picking the right one. same for whoever has the 7th pick. there are no stone cold locks down there.
I'm not a huge JVG fan....I do think he should give young guys a lot of minutes. But I disagree with the notion we should be blatantly trying to miss shots and lose games. I'd like to think that sports are a little bit about honor. I didn't enjoy John Jenkins scoring the 84th point against Eastern Washington trying to eke every ranking point possible out of the computers. And I didn't like Brown going extreme wide left on that one kick, and if Reggie Bush goes on to a HOF career I won't like it any better. I think its acceptable to play young guys and rest veterans some, but this Rockets team is so injury decimated (and so obviously full of very limited role players) that its hard to field a credible NBA team with Yao and T-Mac injured. I really think honor requires that we play J-Ho a bit, just so that there is 1 semi-legit scoring threat on the court.
And there would be a bigger handful if we drafted at the 7. What's so hard to understand about the simple math? at the 7th pick there are more of these 'blossoming' players to choose from than at 10. That increases our odds of getting a contributer. The worse your draft position, the more of a crapshoot it is. Many people are forgeting that sometimes you have to put yourself in the position to get lucky. It's like winning a title. You build the team, and then you hope that things go your way in the playoffs. That's how the Spurs have won 3. Every year they put themselves in position to win a title. When their players aren't injured, or when opposing players are, they win. In our case, we have to maximize our chances of getting a solid player.
Pretty funny... your point is supposedly made by the 7th pick in Amare's draft, but someone cites a LOT of examples and it's "more and more creative ways to skew those stats in favor of your weak aregument". You're merely taking an example where the 9th pick proved to be better than the 7th pick over time. I'm sure you can pull up many drafts where second rounders proved to be better than lottery picks ... doesn't make a second round pick, before it's used, better than a lottery pick. The cold, hard fact is the 7th pick is better than the 9th pick because you can choose from 2 players that you can't with the 9th. Simple as that. It's not all luck either ... yes, that plays a part but a lot of scouting and development goes in to making the choice, and more players to choose from is simply the better option. I'd rather have the 7th pick with the chance to take Amare than have the 9th and have to pray the 7th or 8th picks don't take him.
yes, the 7th pick is better than the 9th because you can choose from two players that you can't with the 9th. that is the only reason. and i'm saying that the likelihood of those two players being better than anybody drafted 9th or lower AND that we would have drafted that player at 7 is slim. once again, would i rather have the 7th pick or the 9th pick? obviously the 7th. i believe that it doesn't make a difference with so much unpredictability in these drafts, and that i think the chances are pretty close to equal that the player who is drafted at 9 is better than the player that is drafted at 7. throw in the fact that all we are really looking for is a good role player, and i think that the overreaction by the majority of the board after beating the nuggets the other night was ridiculous.
I agree with everything you guys say about desiring the team's draft position. But you gotta keep something additional in mind, there's a luck-of-the-draw lottery before the draft that dictates draft position. How many times, if ever, has the ultimate draft position of each team exactly mirrored the preceeding lottery probabilities? What if it turns out that because of the Denver win, the Rockets wind up with a earlier draft pick than the team directly ahead of us in probability? What if the team immediately ahead of us in lottery probability winds up with a much later pick? If these things happen, what water does the "tank" mentaility hold? This isn't football, and the teams with the weakest records don't get an automatic place at the head of the draft. *** As detailed in Tinman's JHo Curse thread, I firmly believe that our performance in the lottery will finally determine whether Juwan is in fact cursed or should be sainted for his 31 point explosion.
there are only 3 teams selected in the lottery. if we wind up ahead of any teams ahead of us, that means we have a top 3 pick.
Fair enough ... that makes sense. I would hate to be 9 though because of the last two minutes in Denver, and find the 7th or 8th picks snatch up players that best fits our needs and future.
First, it's too early to judge class 2005 and 2004. Second, this draft is more like year 2000 and year 2001. No can't miss type players on draft day, a lot contributers. Nobody knows who'll pan out to be the better players.
I made the list to illustrate past drafts that had guys who could contribute in their rookie season. Of course it's too early to judge a lot of those guys in the long-term. I'm going by what they did this year. The bottom line is: we need a big shooting guard. There are a couple decent prospects in this draft who fit the bill, i.e. Gay and Roy. Both of them are projected anywhere from 3 to 7. We had a chance of getting lucky and snagging one of them (even if we don't win the lotto), but now the top SG's that we can get at our position are Mardy Collins and Brewer, neither of which can shoot. We're all sick of guards who can't shoot. So now we have to go down to the 2nd tier power forwards. The problem is we already have two of them, and it be very hard to move either one of them. We can either go with a project, McRoberts, assuming he's even available, or Williams, who probably won't even get time next year if Juwan's heart is still beating.
I didn't read any of the posts, but let me take a stab at the original question, What is JVG thinking? I am guesing that he is thinking the same thing Michael Jordan would be thinking. The same thing Larry Bird would be thinking. Same for Magic Johnson. They are thinking that they are there to win EVERY TIME they step on the floor. Doesn't matter if it is a pick up game, a championship game, a meaningless game, or even whose bag will come off the carosul next. They are going to give it their all to win. They are not wired to lay down and QUIT, period.
While I know you crazy clutchfans posters are ALWAYS SOOO incline to always credit JVG for the Rockets Winning... I will have to disagree on this one and instead credit the players for the win. And though I'm not part of the small tiny almost unnoticeable group of posters on this site that hates JVG, I have to say... it was the players who should get credit for the win and not anything JVG and his supposed "brillant thinking" did that got us the win. In fact I would argue JVG did nothing! In fact he sucked at crunch time! Again I'm not one of those very very few who likes to blame him but facts are FACTS! What? you say JVG gets credit because he played Juwon 33 minutes! Big deal! I counter that, Howard actually playing well was a fluke! I mean playing Howard alot of minutes all of a sudden equals winning!? What happen to Howard being one of the worst Rockets? Isnt Howard the one with the worst plus/minus numbers? Isnt Howard one of the reason the Rockets are so bad this year? Isnt Swift >>> Howard... isnt even Ballboy >>> Howard Zboy? Durvasa? Jopactmc? Someone help me out here! LoL crazy people here claiming JVG playing Howard helped us win! hahah Lets not stretch the truth just to laud compliments for JVG now! What you say JVG gets credit for the win because he played the other Vets big minutes! Wrong again! I say the team AS USUAL won in spite of JVG! I mean he played alston 42 minutes... true. But alston was horrible! He was 5-17! for god sakes! Wesley and his 29 minutes you say?? Wesley was 1-4 with 4TO and 2 points! I mean I'd think I would've given JVG credit for the Rockets Losing rather than winning. Mutombo and his 4 pts 5 fouls 6 rebounds and 23minutes cmon... now! now your just trying to give JVG undeserved credit and love! What? It was his coaching decisions/thinking that get credit? NO again. Even though I think JVG isnt that evil and am not against gving the man some credit.. but Facts are facts! Rockets were down 13 with 4mins and 20 sec to play... what does JVG do the rest of the way as we make our run? NADA, ZILCH, NOTHING! no timeout no special plays no specail subs NADA! Instead its the players who make all the plays in the incredible and unlikely comeback. Luther Head hits 2 shots in this 4 minutes stretch and hes made only 1 other the entire game! Bogans makes a layup to get us within 3 and feeds Howard to get us within 1. Hayes making the game winning steal with 13 secs left and the game winning basket by Dunking the ball was the hero not JVG. It was the players who deserve credit for the win. Head's 5 pts, Bogan's 2pts 1 assts, Howard's 6 points and Hayes' 2 rbounds and Game winning plays gave the Rockets the WIN AND THEY, NOT JVG are the hero! Despite what all you JVG LOVERS here in this thread are saying!
I agree with the playing younger guys part. And speaking about LUCKY, I guess #7 pick might have a larger chance to get lucky than #10, I think that is why most of the guys were mad about the win. Also, if we look back, such a win really didn't do us any good; whereas, if we lose, it would only benefit us...
Just curious, have Michael Jordan, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson ever faced the same situation as JVG has now?
Now that's how to tank a game. That's what I'm Talking about! Why couldn't Jeffy do this against Denver, because he's stupey Jeffy.
