ask Chuck Hayes Luther Head Rafer Alston Keith Bogans Juwan Howard Dikembe Mutombo if they have any ill feelings about winning this game.
Look at the thread title. It's about the coach, not the players. JVG is still singing the "I am putting in the players that will give us the best chance to win" tune. We are not asking the players to miss shots intentionally or throwing the ball to the opposing players. We are just asking the coach to have some sense that this is NOT a time to try to win meaningless games. It is a time to look into the future.
Huh? I never said anything about players having ill feelings about winning games. Of course they are happy to win a game. To say people aren't supportive of the Rockets because they want them to lose a game is dumb. I understand your point, but winning lastnight's game will most likely do more harm than if we lost it. Like I posted, we went from a possible Top 6 pick to barely being in the Top 10. Anyone that supports this franchise will realize that having a higher draft pick will most likely help the team more than having a lower one. And if it requires losing a meaningless game, then who are you to say we don't support the team? Sure you can ask Bogans, Head, or whoever if they have any ill feelings about winning, they will definitely say no. Now ask David Robinson if he has any ill feelings about losing games to get TD, or ask the Rockets when they tanked to get Hakeem, you'll probably get the same answer.
The bottom line is, if JVG played young players like Head, Lampe, Swift and Hayes 30-35 minutes, stopped playing old folks like Juwan Howard, Mutombo and Wesley, and we got a win, I can accept it... I have no problem with JVG telling his players to play hard and win the game. I have no problem with the players feeling happy after winning the game. They should. I'm just mad at JVG for not playing young players... 15 minutes for Swift and 0 minutes for Lampe? JVG sux.
I cannot speak with certainty, but I don't believe the Spurs were mathematically the worst team in the league that year. With that, had they gotten KVHorn who knows where they'd be now. Also, I don't believe Bob Hill had any desire to purposely coach to lose games. He was promptly fired after that season as Pop took over coaching duties to begin the Duncan Era. Hill coached as well as he could with season long injuries to major players, most notably David Robinson. The Spurs actually made efforts to be more competitive by signing older proven veterans like Dominique Wilkins. Contrary to some opinions, the Spurs were not in "tank" mode that season. They were simply unfortunate with injuries and fortunate with lady luck in the lottery. I can understand people wanting to get a high pick for their team, but you gotta be real and honest about things. The coach wants to win. And let's say on the off chance that the coach wants to lose, I can guarantee that most players want to win and are gonna play and compete to win. And again, let's be real, nobody's gonna put Brunson, Lampe, Bowen, Mutombo and Wesley on the floor at the same time. A lineup like that would truly signal your desired "tanking." Perhaps some of you guys would in fact parade that team out on the court. But it's unrealistic to think anyone anywhere in the NBA would do what you're suggesting.
Now THIS makes sense, guys. I can totally agree with every point, CWWW. I think your post sheds light on the real issue. It's not about winning or "tanking" at this point in the season. It's about throwing the youngs out there into the fire and giving them some run. I'm still waiting for an understanding of the Lampe situation . . . Anybody?
I think it's completely delusional to believe that moving up a few draft spots is going to make the team that much better next year. I can't believe that so many "Rocket fan since birth" types around here would actually root for the team to lose. I don't believe a real fan ever roots for their team to lose. This forum really has gotten ugly lately.
Maciej Lampe sucks. I'm pretty sure that's the long and short of it. People need to understand that he was acquired only as a salary dump. There is no need to develop him; he will not be resigned. If he weren't a third year veteran, he'd have gotten the same treatment Gerald Fitch got. Remember how we all wanted Bostjan Nachbar to play more in his rookie year, and couldn't understand why a guy with so much talent couldn't even get off the bench a bit? Now we know that it was because he sucked. Don't make the same mistake with believing in Lampe, just because he was hyped pre-draft and is European. Now Lampe might have a very good career later, considering he's only 21 now, and other big man busts such as Steven Hunter and DeSanaga Diop have been hooked up to the juvenation machine the past two years, but it's clear that it won't be happening with Houston. The rest of this post is not directed at anyone in particular, so don't take these opinions as personal attacks. I believe that having Juwan Howard playing in games hurts our chances of winning more than having Stromile and Chuck out on the floor for the majority of the minutes (though Van Gundy might disagree) and I'm of the opinion that Jeff is giving Mutombo extended minutes at the end of the season in order to entice him back for one more year. Also, though I realize that few people probably watched the game last night; (I admit that I was watching it with one eye), the look on Van Gundy's face when Chuck Hayes stuffed down that dunk was quite telling. No look of joy, of smugness, of celebration, but a look as though he just ate some bad Habenero chili; whether it stays in or goes out, it's not going to feel good. I do believe that Van Gundy has resigned the season, and isn't playing to win anymore, but he's not willing to play to lose, either. He's not willing to make his players play less hard in order to lose, and not willing to make fundamentally unsound coaching decisons to do it, such as benching or going away from the hot hand in Juwan, or not applying backcourt pressure and only fouling when the ball crosses the midline. I know that no one will remember this game next season, or five seasons later, or at Yao's Hall of Fame induction ceremony, but the point is that Van Gundy would know about it. I know that right now, everyone is looking at Brandon Roy and Rodney Carney slipping away. And I know that decrees of honor, righteousness, building character and such aren't any comfort. But they must be said, regardless. If you don't agree, then it is certainly your right to do so, and I probably lost you somewhere around rationalizing the Dikembe cameos. Van Gundy could make horrible coaching moves, intentionally lose games and such, and no one could fault him. Yet he would know what he was doing was wrong, violating the unwritten rule of always playing to win. Therefore, I cannot find fault in Van Gundy for this. I will never find a coach deserving of hate and insult for doing his job and winning. I might be pissed at first for hurting the franchise, but at the same time, I could never use winning as an excuse to fire him, or hold it against him in the long run. It will be a long time to the draft lottery, and certainly not a pleasant one.
What is JVG Thinking??? Thinking to win basketball games? I think the better question is "why is JVG thinking to win basketball games at this stage of the season?"
You don't believe a real fan ever roots for their team to lose? Ok, let me ask a question, if Tim Duncan came out in the upcoming draft, and it's guarenteed losing just one game tomorrow gets you the No.1 draft pick, ya're gonna put on a straight face and say screw Tim Duncan I'm a real fan? Talking about being delusional.
I think the real issue is people having the wrong focus on winning. The thinking of winning individual games being above winning a season is mind boggling to me. How can people be so short sighted? Winning is all about getting the ring, not about winning some meaningless games which hurts our future. Winning is not a religion, it's a path that leads to the ring. Sometimes one needs to get off the path and take a detour, when that path is filled with land mines, and that time is now. I find fault in winning without priorities. The just win attitude is plain wrong. If you just want the Rockets to win, why not put them against college teams, or make them play against street ballers? The Rockets would blow them out and win every time, but what's the meaning of it? I'm not taking an extreme example - winning regular season games after being eliminated from playoffs has the same meaning of pitting the Rockets against college teams or street ballers, which is ZERO. This is a strange world, sometimes losing helps winning, and winning helps losing.
Yeah, I'm sure Detroit thought the same thing in '98 about the difference between a 10th and 11th pick. Whoops, coulda had Paul Pierce. How bout having the 10th pick in 2002? Amare somehow fell out of sheer chance (being injured and not being able to work out for many teams) to the Suns at the 9 spot. Betcha the Heat woulda loved to have him, but nope, they were one spot behind. My point is, with a number 7 pick, a guy like, say, Gay, or Roy might inexplicably fall a few spots on draft day. If this happens, then all we can do is watch Minnesota, or Golden State, or Seattle snatch him up. What if Noah decides to enter the draft because of his incredibly high stock? that would have improved our chances even more. Now we need him to enter just to get a little closer to the position where we were a few days ago, before this inexplicably stupid win.
what an awful, weak post. two isolated, weak and terrible examples. who was picked 7th amare's year? what about 6th?
i understand what you're saying but i can't get behind bashing a coach for using his best players, who are totally healthy, to try and win a game. if he brings back t-mac to beat san antonio tomorrow i'll start a fire van gundy petition myself, but right now i just don't get it. his win-at-all-costs attitude hurt us yesterday and may hurt us again tomorrow but i think his motivation to get the best out of his players every single game is a lot of what i like about him and is a quality i think we all want in a head coach.
When David Robinson had returned to good health the Spurs deliberately held him out of the Roster, I call that tanking.
Well if this is so , all I can say is that it's FAR TOO LATE TO START BEING A GOOD COACH He should have started doing this much earlier on in the season and we wouldn't be in this situation that we are in now..
One funny thing, from time to time I pay attention to the 'Classic Moments' on the bottom of every page. A number of the comments were about firing JVG. At times those may have sounded idiotic, but right now, they look so smart to me.
Amen to that! Besides all of these folks around here who are rooting for a high lotto draft pick seem to conveniently forget WHO will doing the picking and based on this team's "less than stellar" draft history, that's not something that fills me with a great deal of optimism for the future. The sad fact is that this team needs far more than a lotto draft pick to contend next year. Well, at least this time they won't have 3 1st round picks to mess up.
