I think you should read twhy77's advice again. Read Batman's, too. As for me, I think you should stay with Ferdinand. Get some personal counseling, take a trip together, have fun, add some spice to the marriage, get crazy together. Come'on, your married! Did he cheat on you or what?
The marriage thing, for those who are wondering, isn't a case of "the flame going out". Things are the same way they have always been. It's not like what's happening to one of my co-workers, who's getting divorced because he doesn't feel attracted to his wife anymore. (and then didn't feel like sleeping with her, started having affairs, etc.) I still find him attractive and everything physically is fine. The emotional aspects of the relationship were never that great. It's just a matter of me trying to do the "good" and "right" thing and work on it all those years, when it was really kind of just "there" and unsatisfying. He has known for a very long time that there are serious problems and I was thinking about leaving. He says he doesn't want that, but "whatever is best for me". I keep trying to offer him chances to stop me and turn things around. The most he does is pay attention to me for a few days, act nice, then go back to his old self after he thinks he got that straightened out. It's not getting anywhere.
WTF?!?!? And you say you're NOT a game-playing manipulator? What are you - 15 years old? I have stronger comments, but don't want to get banned for flaming you. To keep it civil, this behavior is childish, selfish, and ludicrous, and it's no way to make a relationship work with ANYONE. I friggin' HATE game-playing women that do this crap. To answer your original question: This turd of a guy doesn't want to be 'just friends' with you because of two reasons: 1) when a man is attracted to a woman, it drives him crazy to have to suppress and contain his feelings. Men find it VERY frustrating to have to suppress and contain those feelings. 2) When a man is attracted to a woman he either wants to make progress with her, or he wants to forget it and move on. $hit or get off the pot. The "let's be friends" thing is in between: he doesn't get to be intimate with her, yet he feels strung along because she's admitted to liking him and perhaps in the future something might happen. This is how a guy defines a tease. You should know that only a real sleazebag would be making advances on another guy's wife. That's a really crappy thing to do. In your own words: "I'm scared of ending up alone the rest of my life with no one caring." THIS IS A BIG PROBLEM IN YOURSELF THAT YOU NEED TO ADDRESS! I agree with twhy77 and right1 There are very few things that should be possible to break up a marriage: extreme abuse or infidelity. If it ain't one of those two, you've made a commitment to your husband, to yourself, to God, and to the rest of the world that you are gonna stay with him. That's what commitment is. You will never make a long term relationship work if you just leave when the going gets rough. Leaving isn't the answer. ... and you need to friggin' GROW UP -- droxford
I suspect that either or both of you spilled a lot of emotional baggage to each other. That emotional investment is why you want to take things slow and he wants the green light to move full throttle. He's trying to make a withdrawal at the bank but somethings wrong with the vault. The only way he'll break his supposed morals and integrety by breaking up a marriage is if the rewards are greater than the costs. A flawed relationship isn't a greater reward. You want to know the problem with men when your current marriage problem has already distorted any possible relationships you'll have.
Someone's already said it I think, but you're hurting everyone involved in this, including yourself, when you're seeing (or trying to see) others while still married. That's just wrong. Something about having your cake and eating it to or something like that...
Its all very complicated. bottom line: It sounds like this dude just wants a piece of ass. There are plenty of good guy friends that you can meet. You just cant choose the ones that "like" you. If a girl doesnt give me the vibe of, "Hey I want you more than friends" then I will keep my distance. No pawing and stuff like that. Thats just not cool. edit: Didnt know that you were hitched. I dont see anything wrong with being friends with a guy if its just friends.
That is precisely the point I was trying to make in my previous post. No decent guy (and I mean without exception) would do that. I am no saint by any stretch of the imagination, but I would never ever do that, regardless of how attractive a woman was or how much I liked her. I do my absolute best to stay out of my sons' lives. All 3 of them are grown men (my youngest is 32) with families of their own. But if I ever found out that one of my boys was having marital difficulties and was hitting on a married woman as a result, me and my belt would pay my son a visit because there is no way that one of my daughters-in law deserve that. On the same note, I would be very upset if one of my daughters-in-law explored other relationships while married to my son. I would never advocate a divorce, because it is not my place to do that. However, I would ask my son to seriously evaluate his relationship. All of this brings me to you. Let me preface this by saying that I do not mean to lecture you at all. It is not my place nor is it my right to do so. However, you asked for advice and input and I feel that I do owe it to you to be honest with you. The last thing you need is a BBS full of yes-men. I do think you are setting yourself up for another heartbreak by exploring a relationship (you call it a friendship; I call it exploring a relationship because in my book, that is precisely what it is) while being married. You are doing yourself and your husband a grave injustice. If your relationship is so beyond repair to where you are exploring a relationship, then for God's sake, get a divorce and move on. No one wants a divorce, but it is an option. We can't deny that. You are undeniably an intelligent woman. Use your intelligence and your objectivity to see things for what they are. As much as I hate referencing Al Franken, you should really look to Stuart Smalley. You're good enough, you're smart enough, and people like you. Just knowing that should give you the self-confidence to evaluate what's best for you and to not settle for less. Take a moment to evaluate what's best for you and act accordingly.
I disagree with this part. I can hang out with girls I am attracted to who only want to be friends, it's no big deal. I have self-control. If the guy can't handle it, then maybe HE should move on instead of waiting and hoping day after day that something happens. Lots of guys it seems are doing the "good friends" thing in the hopes of a romantic relationship. They should stop with the false hope and they shouldn't blame the woman when she just doesn't develop stronger feelings.
I know this may sound harsh but as a friend of mine said. . . "If I wanted a Friend . . . I'd buy a dog." and generally that his how a whole host of men think Slow ain't in the vocab besides . .. once you in the friENDZONE 9 times out of 10 . . that is where u stay Rocket River
Because, no guy wants to fall into the friend zone. If you want a shoulder to cry on, go be with your girlfriends who will understand your pain a lot better than any guy. Every guy knows that once you become a friend to the girl, it's over. There is no chance of getting with her, or in her unless either you get plastered or there is pity sex involved. Not to be harsh, but you just broke up with a guy, you should know what kinda dicks we are. My definition of friends are guys I could talk **** with, lay a couple of farts and stereotype females into their lowest form possible. Most guys who talk to a girl for more than 15 minutes will be thinking about doing her. Even if she's ugly, if a man can spend 15 minutes talking to a ugly chick, he's gonna be thinking about how she is in bed. and yes, I know I'm an a-hole
I think he can control himself. Unfortunately some guys like him have been taught to be overly aggressive to get the girl. Watch any movie, the guy who chases the girl is the one who gets the girl. Who takes it slow? The guys who stay at home alone, so the idea goes. He probably thinks he'll miss his chance with you if he doesn't try.
Wow, what a bunch of moralizing. You know, tomorrow is not today. Yesterday is not tomorrow, or today. That is then and this is now, and tomorrow is something new. Maybe I have seen more than some of you. There are other cultures with different standards, and no absolute will always apply. The only real dependable absolute is they always fail you. Just do what's right. And if you don't, make it right, later, as best you can. You have to answer to you. You know about regret, right? We rarely regret the things we did, and really wanted to. We justify them, make them learning experiences. We really regret the thing we wanted to do, but pussied out on. Horrible. Live, and Be. Stop living dead. Be alive. You are. Be really alive. No one else really cares about you. You have to take care of you, everyone else will try to destroy you to make themselves feel better about their miserable failures. Just do it. Do it.
It not only is possible but common for men to do both. As much as we may wish to be guided by our better angels we are still men. IMO for your own sake, his and you at least owe to Ferdinand to cut things off now. You may not think you're using him but from my reading of things I believe you are and you don't realize it. You say weren't especially attracted to him before buy that's changing. You're giving him mixed messages and he's having a hard time sorting those out between his upper and lower heads. I might be the only guy here who feels sorry for this guy. At the risk of being flamed relentlessly by Jeff and the strong but sensitive guy crowd I am going to say that to me it looks like this poor guy is vulnerable and you sensing that have taken advantage of him as someone to commiserate with. From what it sounds like you're an attractive, intelligent vivacious woman and this guy going through whatever he was going through has seen a ray of hope in the darkness of his misery from in this attractive, intelligent vivacious woman who is very interested in him. Yeah its a pretty low thing getting involved with someone's wife but while we all may aspire to be solid in our virtues we're still flesh with all of the weaknesses that come with that. It could but I don't think so. You might not realize you're being a tease but it still sounds to me like you're sending him some mixed messages. The problem is that you're desperate for an emotional relationship he's desperate for an emotional and physical relationship. Even though I'm spewing all of this stuff I still don't think this is right place for advice on such matters. Why I feel sorry for this guy and also why I find your relationship threads so interesting is because I've been in a situation sorta like this guy. A few years back I met a woman at a nightclub and she was really on to me physically, grabbing me and dancing very close. When we were leaving she told me that she was going through a tough time but didn't want to tell me. We exchanged phone numbers and she called a few days later. It turns out she was divorcing her abusive husband and having grown up Catholic in a small town in BFE MN was having a hard time dealing with it. She had just moved to the Twin Cities a few months ago to get away from him. Anyway we had a long talk and I gave her the whole line of advice about being strong and dealing and being supportive. She said she still wanted to see me and I being younger, besotted by this hot blonde (think about Darryl Hannah in her 20's) and also foolish I went along with it. So I went to her house and we talked some more then she wanted a backrub, then she wanted to cuddle and so being possesed by the primitive mind I percieved this as an invitation to go further. Well she stopped and ushered me to the door with no clear explanation. She stopped seeing me and I was left pretty hurt and confused by the whole situation. What I didn't realize until I thought about it later was that at the time I was hard up and meeting this beautiful but troubled blonde had overruled what should have been more discretion on my part. I also realized that she was really looking for some sort of emotional support but wasn't able to ask for that or express that other than the way she did. From that I learned the hard lesson that women when they are feeling vulnerable aren't always clear and its mistake for hard up men to get involved with them. Not saying this situation is exactly analogous to my situation but its similar and since this guy isn't on the BBS I'm telling you the best thing for both of you is to end it before things get worse.
I'm not doubting that you can be friends with a girl. I can, too. I'm generalizing our gender, though. You have to admit that, when speaking of men in general, my statements hold true. -- droxford
One thing seems to be clear is that you are not really into both guys. Is it true that you have put yourself in a bottleneck in which you have two similar and inferior choices who can only get by with, but is not discardable as long as MR.Right hasn't shown up? You have only three choices now: 1. Stick to your hubby. 2. Get divorced and stick to the new guy. 3. Put them away and find a new one If you can tell right now the new guy isn't worthy of getting divorced for, stick to the husband. You don't get divorced for a marginal upgrade. If your husband really can't mesh with you, no matter how HARD you both tried, then it's better to break apart and move on, regardless of the presence of third party. Either way, you hold the cards and you are reponsible for what you get. My advice is simple, follow your heart and don't play emotion/relationships. All that matters is if you want to sustain your current marriage, regardless of the presence of third party. You might not be aware of it but you are taking about a planned approach towards feelings, something you have no control of. If you like somebody, you like him. You don't tell people you really like anything resembling "I can only be friend with you now because I need time, and I prepare to reward you by loving you when I'm ready." Love that can be turned on and off at will isn't real love. You are being manipulative to protect yourself. You are in a bad situation but you are afraid if you break it things might get worse. You might end up getting nothing in return. The passion in the new romance is stunted by your marital status and the lack of it makes you wonder is it worth to get divorced for a romance without passion, much less guarenteed of fruition. You and the new guy might have had a real romance, but things might be a little late now as the relationship is stunted at an early stage, like a baby dead in womb. I really suspect because of your indecision you now have two Ferdinands, one your husband and the other the newcomer. Your marriage is a problem, the uncertainty of a new relationship is another, no wonder you seem to be stuck in two issues. They get tangled up and you are confused, so you try to be manipulative to ensure security. You are waiting for something dramatic to happen so you can make up your mind, but that's not taking fate in your own hands. You need to solve matters one by one, step by step. Since marriage is more important than an affair, and in this case, the root of all problems, you need to cut off from seeing and hanging out with the new guy for a while so you can isolate and simplify the issues at hand. Work on your marriage and see the final outcome. Stick to your husband or get a divoice. Either way you'll have a direction. So my blunt advice is, quit dangling with two guys, you either stick to one of them or none at all. You want a perfect transition and complicated matter, you deserve what you get. That's my two cents and again I wish you good luck.
