My ideology? What do you mean? That I think all Americans should be treated equally while you oppose it? That's not just my ideology; it's in the Constitution. Being that your bigotry leads you to oppose a basic tenet of the Constitution, I'd say it's your "ideology" that's an issue. I brought up your kids again, and will continue to, because I think its sick that you're passing your hate on to them. Finally no, I wouldn't have any problem with you teaching your kids anything to do with religion. That's up to you. The only time it bothers me is when those teachings include hate and bigotry.
There's no reason to bring the kids into this at all. Or delve into the cause of gayness. Gay simply is. There are gay people about. Our kids will see that on TV. Read about it in magazines and books. They'll meet gay people. They'll work with them. They'll likely have friends who are gay. There's nothing to 'approve' or 'not approve.' It's not for us to declare 'wrong' or 'right.' It just is. We can try to teach them to judge, I suppose. But that only last a while. And soon enough they'll make up their own minds. And that judgement will eventually just come back on us. If we've otherwise done a good job, they'll forgive us -- as we've mostly forgiven our parents for views they held that we now recognize as racist. It's actually pretty funny (in a sad way) that the 'fight' is now over the word marriage. Ten years ago, people argued against civil unions -- about extending benefits. The whole concept of a gay couple. Those sorts of things. Now they're clinging to a word. All but the fringe fully accepting gay partnerships as long as they don't use the M-word. A word long ago broadened well beyond any religeous context. So I guess we wait it out. State by state will accept gay marriage. When there's a critical mass of legislative support, the SC will force the remaining holdouts. And we'll look back at how incredibly petty and stupid we were. Crazy it has to go this route. But our politicians are spineless. And not nearly as smart as our kids.
That statement by itself brings up a ponderance. Would they be advanced human rights?? Though if you think about it, some countries dont have the right to marry anyone they choose, even opposite sex couples.
your quest to make homosexuality and homosexual marriage synonymous with heterosexuality and heterosexual marriage. again, your fighting over language, not equality. You act as if I teach my kids your foolish nonsense. I don't teach my kids to hate anyone. you are the one who keeps spouting this foolish nonsense. then why would you have a problem with me teaching my kids that homosexuality is wrong? I don't agree with atheism. I don't agree with the concept of atheism, so I guess I must be teaching my kids to hate atheists. feeble, foolish logic.
Wow, man. I gotta take a break. You're gonna feel like a damn fool (not to mention a total *******) when the country finishes up its almost finished, well overdue conversion to equal rights for all.
Batman, how you holding up tonight? Positive vibes sent. I have never had pain that bad, but once had a couple of nights with a tooth abcess. I remember rocking back and forth helping in a strange way, but you probably can't move that much. /derail
Judging solely by his tone, # of insults, and level of condescension, he's in pain. Looks like you picked up on it too, as evidenced by your question.
Slaveholders didn't think slavery was against basic human rights, either. Let me ask you again: Is slavery a complicated issue, or not? Interesting that you keep avoiding this question.
do you think the rockets would have made, at least, the WCF if we landed billups and prince for mcgrady?
I don't think that society is looking at gay marriage as a snub or substitute for straight marriage. I doubt gay marriage will have much affect on straight marriage either positively or negatively. I've known two gay couples divorce and it was as bitter as any bad straight marriage divorce. I completely think gays should be allowed to marry or raise children but I'm not going to argue that Gays are going to raise children better than straights. I'm not quite sure that I follow you. Are you saying that because the institution of straight marriage is in trouble we should focus on fixing that before we worry about gay marriage? I don't see why we can't work on fixing the instution of straight marriage while allowing gay marriage. As I stated above I don't see gay marriage have much of an affect on straight marriage either positively or negatively. Just because two people of the same gender can get married won't stop two of the opposite gender from getting married or getting divorced. I wouldn't generalize either way. There are very loving Gay couples and not so loving Gay couples and there are single parents who do a great job better than couples either Gay or straight.
We debated that earlier in the thread but to summarize there is a lot of evidence that there is a biological basis to homosexuality.
Thanks for asking, B-Bob. I'm fine. In a lot of pain, but fine. Every day's a step closer. Maybe you should be more concerned about George. At least I still have a job.
In the eyes of the law I believe that is what BJ is saying but from what I recall he would still allow religious institutions to continue to not recognize gay marriages. For the record that is my own opinion also and I don't see that it should be an imposition or even an affront to your religious values that the government looks at things differently than your religion does. For example I am sure there are many things that the government does that you don't agree with religiously. In the eyes of the law though there is no difference as language is critical to a full understanding of law. You can teach your kids whatever you want and not knowing you or your family personally I'm not going to say you are doing your kids a disservice. That said we live in a changing world and your opinion poll not withstanding the tide of history is clearly towards allowing Gay marriage. The fact that legislatures are now passing laws allowing Gay marriage indicates that things are changing. Whatever you teach your kids the world they grow up in will be different than they one that you have been used to. Thats not a criticism of your parenting but an acknowledgement of reality.
Batman, I've stated my opinion in the other thread, stand by it and am not going to lecture you again but am going to ask you a practical question. Do you think you bringing up LL's kids is going to make any difference to convincing LL or advance the discussion in any way?
Incase in all of our back and forth I forgot to say it. Good luck on your recovery. I shattered my femur about 20 years ago in a motorcycle accident so I know how tough it is to heal from a major break. Take it easy get lots of rest and listen to your physical therapists.
No I don't. But I don't care. If it were thirty years ago and he was spouting this bigotry about interracial marriage (and saying he was sharing it with his kids), I'd do the same thing. I don't care if it changes his mind or not. It's the right thing to do. He's on the wrong side of an issue of basic civil rights and he's teaching his children bigotry. I consider that abuse and I will continue to say so; I'm not trying to change his mind. I'm only trying to tell him he's doing wrong by his kids.
Thanks, man. It's hard for me to take it easy, but I'm trying. And I haven't gotten to physical therapy yet but when I do I'll do my best to listen. Your injury sounded horrible. As much pain as I'm in (and it's a lot), I feel lucky by comparison. Glad you're doing better.
[extremism] The topic asks "What is Gay", so a non-gay person attempting to answer will be all over the place. Dubious brought amibiguous genetalia. Talk about confusing. In all thought process of this topic I included transexuals (for gayzar's considerations). For a particular reason though...that and all my ranting stems from a random incident... Its about sphere of influence. Years ago I saw online somewhere a person ask "What really is a gender?". Very profound...thought about it - what exactly should sentient beings be about? Are we living too categorized based on gender characteristics? Gender in a way is limiting. Since its non-harmful behaviors that are what counts, right? Then I thought, okay REALLY... WHAT THE HECK IS WRONG WITH GENDERS AND STRAIGHTNESS?! Then to find out that person was transgendered...and probably in all kinds of confusion of what his identitity is. Cuz..does advancement of humanity REALLY mean we need to mold ourselves into being like asexual starfish and earthworms, cuz the gender thing "isnt working out? Are things in THAT much disarray we gotta find answers to our "gender crisis" with unconventional means? The whole thing ended up pissing me off really.. So from there, like "White Guilt", I said there's no reason to have "Straight Guilt" AT ALL. Dont have to justify jack sh** about sexual orientation. Man hunt and protect, women clean, nurture and birth, repeat every day. The 10-15% population who arent with that, let em figure it out amongst themselves and let the majority be content. We're talking gays but why stop there, lets keep the train going. The brave new world wants gender reassortment procedures and such. A guy can change to a girl, then to a guy, then back to a girl again when its convenient, then retire a guy. Are we ready for our sons to introduce dad to the girl they're taking on a date, then their boyfriend to dad the next weekend? And only 1/2 the people coming from natural birth? [/extremism]
