What is Falun Gong and why is China cracking down on it?

So why trust anything the CCP says Panda? You admit in an earlier post that Chinese listened to the VOA because the CCP press did not give a true account?

Oops.

It incorporates many aspects of traditional Chinese practices - revolving around breathing and mediatation. The organization was created in 1992.

Not completely traditional, or it wouldn't be 'new.' But it can incorporate both 'traditional' and 'new' practices into one 'totally new' practice.

A new artist could rerecord an old traditional song, and call it a traditional song, even though it was new.

Since the CCP prosecutes members of the Falun Gong, could it be they don't want to have a master list of members? Actually from what I've read they don't have 'membership' so stats on practitioners will always be hard to accurately assess (whether that is so they can exaggerate their numbers or protect themselves from the CCP) I do not know. And I think its probably true that all religions overestimate their membership.

Yeah, kinda like the CCP thinking there is one communist among every 13 Chinese!

Yes. We wouldn't want people to be truthful, or merciful, or to have forbearance. Those are really bad qualities.

 

I would certainly be skeptical of anyone knocking on my door and saying that, Panda. I agree with you there. But I am skeptical of religion in general, which promises the same things. That doesn't mean we should crush religion, unless that religion really is inherently dangerous.

 

It IS a suprise that Panda and michecon would think the same thing, lol.

Panda, I don't hide so relax. I have other things to do occasionally.

 

You mean demonstration against government policy is banned. Or congregation of like minded individuals is banned.

 

So we don't get too confused by michecon and panda's paranoid attempts to blame anything wrong in China on the US, this is a report from Amnesty International, an organization most decidedly NOT in America's pocket, about the CCP crackdown on Falun Gong.

REPORTS OF TORTURE AND ILL-TREATMENT
OF FOLLOWERS OF THE FALUN GONG

Amnesty International is deeply concerned by reports that detained followers of the Falun Gong have been tortured or ill-treated in various places of detention in China. In early October 1999, one member of the group, a 42 year-old woman, was reportedly beaten to death in police custody in Shandong province. Many followers of the group remain in detention across China and it is feared that they may be at risk of torture or ill-treatment. Many Falun Gong practitioners are middle-aged or elderly people, with a large proportion of women among them.

The Falun Gong - a movement which combines teaching of meditation and exercises as a method to improve health and moral standards - was banned by the Chinese government in July 1999. The government, apparently concerned by the large number of followers in all sectors of society - including government departments, declared it was a "cult" and a "threat to stability" and launched a nationwide propaganda campaign against it. The campaign was described as an important "political struggle". Thousands of Falun Gong followers who attempted to protest peacefully against the ban or who continued to practice exercises were arbitrarily detained across China in the days and weeks which followed the ban. Many were reportedly beaten by police in the process. At least hundreds are believed to remain in detention. Some are now being brought to trial on politically motivated charges. They are likely to be sentenced to long prison terms after unfair trials.

The following are some of the reports of torture and ill-treatment of Falun Gong practitioners received by Amnesty International. Some are accounts of police brutality against people arrested in the immediate aftermath of the ban on the Falun Gong in July 1999. Many other cases have been reported. While in the current climate of repression it is difficult to verify these reports, they contain specific and often detailed information about the places and circumstances in which torture is reported to have occurred, including the names and details of many of the alleged victims, and in some cases their photograph. Most of these reports describe patterns of torture which are known to be common in China. They contain serious allegations which should be impartially investigated. Under the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, which China ratified in 1988, China has the obligation to investigate all reports and complaints of torture, bring those responsible for torture to justice and compensate the victims.

While this document focuses on reports concerning the Falun Gong, Amnesty International is also concerned by other recent reports of torture in China, some of which concern Tibetans arrested or imprisoned for political reasons. Amnesty International is particularly concerned by reports of the death due to torture of Tashi Tsering. A 39 year-old Tibetan, Tashi Tsering is reported to have died in early October 1999 of injuries sustained during beatings by People's Armed Police at the time of his arrest. He had been arrested in Lhasa on 26 August 1999 after trying to replace the Chinese flag by the Tibetan flag in a public place. (For further information, see T.I.N. News Update and TCHRD press release, both of 13 October 1999). Another Tibetan, who had been repeatedly tortured in prison after his arrest in 1996, died earlier this year shortly after he was released from prison "on medical parole" in a critical condition. (See Amnesty International's "Open Letter to the President of the People's Republic of China", 27 September 1999, AI Index: ASA 17/50/99).

These recent reports add to a wealth of evidence that torture of criminal or political suspects and convicted prisoners remains widespread in China. While torture is prohibited by Chinese law, the law is routinely ignored, many cases of torture are covered up, and few of those responsible for torture are punished.

THE DEATH OF ZHAO JINHUA:

Zhao Jinhua, female, a 42 year-old farmer from Zhaojia village, Zhangxing county, Shandong province, is reported to have died on 7 October 1999 in a police station of Zhangxing county. A Falun Gong practitioner since 1995, Zhao Jinhua had been taken away by Zhangxing county police on 27 September 1999 while she was working in the fields. While in police custody, she was reportedly put under pressure to renounce her Falun Gong practice and repeatedly beaten with clubs and electric batons when she refused to do so. On 7 October, she was sent twice to the county hospital for emergency recovery, but she was dead before arriving at the hospital the second time. On 11 October 1999, a police spokesman in Zhangxing county confirmed her death but declined to comment on the cause, according to an Agence France Presse report from Beijing on that day.

Unofficial sources report that local police informed Zhao Jinhua's family of her death on 8 October, warning them not to discuss it. According to the sources, an autopsy carried out on 8 October by medical experts from Zhaoyuan city and Yantai city found that Zhao Jinhua had wounds and haematoma on many parts of the body, except the head. The autopsy report indicated that her death had been caused by beatings with blunt instruments. It appears that the police or other authorities arranged for her body to be cremated immediately after the autopsy. Her ashes were given back to her family on 9 October. The speed with which the body was cremated suggests that the authorities were trying to cover up the circumstances of her death, as is often the case with deaths in custody in China.

Another Falun Gong practitioner detained in Liaoning province, Zhu Shaolan, reportedly died on 7 October 1999 several days after going on hunger strike to protest at her arbitrary detention. Zhu Shaolan, a 50 year-old woman from Jinzhou city, had been detained on 28 September together with other Falun Gong practitioners who had collected signatures for an appeal to the authorities against the ban on the group. While in police custody, 40 of the detained practitioners reportedly went on hunger strike on 29 September, including Zhu Shaolan. She reportedly soon became very weak and started to vomit after being on hunger strike for four days. On 5 October, police sent her to hospital and she is reported to have died there on the morning of 7 October. As far as is known, there has been no public enquiry into the circumstances of her death.

OTHER REPORTS OF TORTURE:

Most of the allegations cited below come from Falun Gong (FLG) sources in various places in China.

Dalian city, Liaoning Province:

In Dalian city, as in other places, groups of FLG practitioners were arrested on various dates in the past three months for appealing against the ban on the FLG or practising FLG exercises in public parks. Many were held for 15 days of "administrative" detention - a punishment imposed by police under public order regulations. Some were reportedly tortured or ill-treated in police custody. The following cases concern people detained at the Yaojia Detention Centre, located in Nanguanling in Dalian, in late August and September 1999.

Zhang XiaoHong, a 38 year-old woman from Dalian, was arrested on 30 August 1999, when she was practising the exercises in Youjia Village of Shahekou District. She was charged with "disrupting social order by using feudal superstition", served with a 15 day detention order and detained at the Yaojia Detention centre. On 9 September, when she asked permission to do FLG exercises, she was reportedly tied to another practitioner with handcuffs and they had to sit back to back on a hard bench for 23 hours. During that period, they were not allowed to eat, sleep or go to the toilet. When they were untied in the evening of 10 September, they were handcuffed individually with their hands tied behind their back, remaining tied in this fashion until 14 September. During that period, they could lie on their sides but could not sleep, because the handcuffs had automatic tightening devices, and tightened and cut into the skin if they fell asleep. They had to rely on the help of fellow inmates to eat and pass stool. On 14 September, the handcuffs were moved to the front. They were released on 15 September.

Sun Lanfang, a 28 year-old woman from Dalian, who was also detained in September at the Yaojia Detention Centre, is reported to have been tortured because she practised FLG exercises in her cell. She was reportedly shackled in a device known as the "Di Lao" (meaning literally "underground prison"), which includes a pair of handcuffs and foot-shackles linked together with crossed steel chains. Such instruments, which make it very difficult and sometimes impossible to walk or sit down, are known to have been used in prisons in various places in China. In Sun Lanfang's case, the device was reportedly further tied to a steel plate, so that she could not move for about 99 hours.

Zhang Chunqing, a 58 year-old woman from Dalian, was arrested on 3 September 1999 for practicing FLG exercises in a public park and detained for 15 days at the Yaojia Detention Centre for "disturbing public order". While held there, on 5 September, she was reportedly shackled in the "Di Lao" device when she said that she wanted to practice FLG exercises. According to an account she gave after her release, she could not walk with the device and had to crawl back to her cell when it was put on her. She remained shackled in this way for two days and nights and was put in the device again on 9 September when she and other women were found doing the exercises in their cell at night. According to her account, on 10 September, 30 of the women detained were beaten when they started reciting passages from a FLG book. Many of them were handcuffed to window bars in the corridor for many hours, while others were handcuffed in pairs back to back. They were freed from the handcuffs on 11 September.

Sa Yusong, a 36 year-old woman held at the Yaojia Detention Centre in Dalian in September 1999, was reportedly tied with handcuffs to a pipe of the heating system from 11 am on 4 September till 8 am the next day; then she was tied to a window rail until 4 pm on 5 September. Considered by police to be stubborn, she was reportedly handcuffed again with her hands tied behind her back from 9 September until her release on 11 September.

Yi Xingqin, a 34 year-old woman who had also been detained in Dalian on 30 August 1999, was reportedly made to stand up for 21 hours handcuffed to a window rail from 8 to 9 September 1999. She was then tied back to back with another practitioner for about 24 hours on 9-10 September. Following this, she reportedly continued to be handcuffed at night until her release on 15 September.

Yang Xiujian, a 33 year-old woman detained in Dalian on 30 August 1999 and held at the Yaojia detention Centre, was reportedly handcuffed to a window rail on 4 September and made to stand up tied there continuously for about 30 hours, after she told the guard that she wanted to do FLG exercises. As she later repeated the request, on 8 September she was reportedly put in the "Di Lao" device (see above), sitting on bricks in a cell until the evening of 9 September. Her menstrual period started that evening but she was not allowed to change or removed from the "Di Lao" device. Instead, she was reportedly made to walk fast by the guard from one cell to another while wearing the device which poked a hole on her foot. In the evening of 10 September, the "Di Lao" was removed, but she remained handcuffed until she was released.

Zhu Hang, female, an Associate Professor at the Department of Humanity and Social Sciences of Dalian University of Science and Technology, was arrested when practising the FLG exercises in a park on 30 August 1999, charged with "disrupting social order with feudal superstition" and detained at the YaoJia Detention Centre. She too was reportedly tortured by being shackled in a "Di Lao" device in such a way that she could not move. As a result, she was not able to use the toilet or feed herself. She reportedly started fasting because she did not want to make difficulties for other detained practitioners and there was not enough food for everyone. Seven days later, the detaining authorities apparently started to worry about possible "life accidents", and ordered several guards to force feed her by pricking her mouth open with spoons, which caused severe injury in her mouth. Later, they reportedly installed a pipe in her nose to feed liquid in her. She eventually lost consciousness and was sent to the People's No. 2 Hospital of Dalian City for recovery. Because of the shackles, her left foot had become swollen to almost double its normal size and she had injuries on her right foot. She could not open her mouth properly and had difficulties speaking.

Huang Hongqi, male, a 29 year-old doctorate student from the Dalian Mechanical University in Liaoning province, was taken into police custody with 10 other FLG practitioners on 28 August 1999 for doing exercises in a park in Dalian. He was held without charge for two weeks. In an interview with the news agency Agence France Presse (AFP) after his release, he reported that they were beaten on several occasions in detention. The first time was on 6 September when they did their exercises at night in their cell. "The guards took our trousers down and gave each of us 15 lashes with a leather whip. Our buttocks were covered in blood," he reported to AFP. According to his account, on 12 September, the guards also forced them to take off their shoes and hit them in the face before handcuffing them to a window for hours. Two days later, they were beaten with rubber coshes, he said. He was released after his university intervened (AFP, Beijing, 6 October 1999).

In a separate account which largely confirms the one above, Wang Renguo, male, another FLG practitioner from Dalian who was detained as the same time as Huang Hongqi, reported that he and five other practitioners were beaten with rubber sticks when they tried to talk to the director of the detention centre. They were also slapped on the face with shoes and tied to a window for five hours, he said, while another FLG practitioner held on a different floor was chained for four or five days for doing FLG exercises.

Hunan Province:

When the FLG was banned in July 1999, police in Hunan province reportedly enrolled people described by dissident sources as "thugs"into the Joint Defence Teams, to assist in the searches of the numerous FLG teaching centres and practice sites in the province and in the arrest of key FLG members. Many incidents of violence reportedly occurred during the searches and arrests. The following allegations have been made in connection with such incidents:

On 22 July in Changsha city, a Special Police Unit of the Changsha Public Security (police) Bureau, escorted by an armed police unit, raided the FLG General Assistance Centre of Hunan Province and reportedly beat and injured all the FLG contact persons present there.

On 24 July in Yueyang city, during a police raid on a publishing company which had printed FLG books, the owner of the company, identified as Mr. Yu Hanxin from Hubei province, allegedly had his legs broken on the spot by a senior officer from the Yueyang Public Security Bureau.

On 25 July in Anhua county, Ms. Li Juhua, a FLG practitioner at the Meicheng Town practice site of Anhua County, was allegedly taken away by the local Joint Defence Team and raped by members of the team, suffering severe mental trauma as a result.

On 25 July in Changde city, Zhou Zhi, male, a FLG practitioner at the practice site of Dingcheng District in Changde City, was allegedly brutally beaten by police when he argued with them while they were searching his home. All his money and other belongings were reportedly taken away by police.

On 26 July in Xiangtan city, Mr. Yang Junhua, the contact person of the FLG Shaoshan practice site in Xiangtan City, was allegedly beaten and injured by members of the No. 7 Joint Defence Team of Xiangtan City.

Changchun city, Jilin Province:

In Changchun, FLG practitioners detained in late August 1999 at the Yushu County Detention Centre were allegedly beaten with electric batons, kicked in the stomach, shackled, and forced to swallow dirty water. Details about those reportedly subjected to such treatment are not available. Several hundred FLG practitioners were reportedly still held in various detention centres in Changchun in early October.

Jiaozhou city, Shandong province:

Over 50 FLG practitioners were taken into police custody in Jiaozhou city on 8 September 1999. Some among them were allegedly beaten, deprived of sleep for five days and of food for three days, to dissuade them from appealing to Beijing against the ban on the FLG and force them to "confess" their wrongdoings. Before being released, they were reportedly warned by police against telling others about their treatment in custody.

Some FLG practitioners in Jiaozhou were allegedly sent by police to a mental hospital and held with mental patients. Two of them have been identified as Wei huayu, an employee of the Jiaozhou Accounting Firm, and Tan Guihua, a worker at the Third Shoe Factory of Jiaozhou. Both were allegedly forced to take sedatives in the hospital where they were held for over 20 days.

Beijing municipality:

Many women, practitioners of the FLG who had gone to Beijing in August 1999 to appeal to the authorities against the ban on the group, were reported to be detained in late August and September in the women's section of the Qiliqu Detention Centre, Changping county, Beijing. Some 60 of them reportedly started a hunger strike on 7 September and were punished as a result in the following days. On 9 September, having fasted for two days, some were forced to stand in the burning sun and were reportedly beaten when they could not stand up any more. One woman identified as Ms Zhang Xihong, after ten days on hunger strike, reportedly had her feet and hands chained closely together so that she could only walk bent double. Ten other women were reportedly handcuffed for three days. Others were beaten with belts and various objects, or forced to stay for long periods with their body bent at a 90 degree angle and their arms raised high behind their back. One woman, identified as Ms Guo Fenren, was reportedly beaten on the face with a string of keys until blood covered her face.

Gao Shanshan, a 16 year-old girl from Qiqihaer, in Heilongjiang province, was reportedly detained in Beijing on 24 September 1999 after being denounced to the police for possessing a FLG book. In an appeal which circulated in early October, her mother, Zhou Yingjie, said her daughter had come to Beijing from Qiqihaer on 20 September in order to meet her. Zhou Yingjie was on a visit to Beijing from Japan, where she resides. The mother alleged that the young girl had been ill-treated by police, including by having food in which some unidentified substance was mixed poured down her throat while her hair was being pulled back by a policeman. The appeal indicated that Gao Shanshan was still being arbitrarily detained as of 2 October. It also said that her father, Gao Deyong, a 50 year-old engineer in Qiqihaer and FLG practitioner, had been illegally detained in that city since 23 September 1999.

 

"Before the ban on Falun Gong, the authorities arrested more than 21,000 people during the ''anti-superstition'' campaign. The crackdown is now being extended to other Qi Gong groups which like the Falun Gong, promote breathing and meditation exercises. Qi Gong is practiced by millions of people in China in many variants. Six hundred followers of Zhong Gong, one of the largest variants, have been detained since October and 25 core leaders have been formally arrested. Ironically, one of the group's eight principles includes ''loving the country and obeying the law''." (Amnesty.org)

It would seem the CCP does not distinguish between Qi Gong and Falun Gong, as michecon does.

 

Or maybe michecon and panda still believe you have to be Chinese to understand the problem. So this is a letter from a Chinese person (I'll assume they speak Chinese, michecon).

Letter from Zhao Ming to the Prime Minister of Iceland
(9/4/2002 0:26)

Computer Science Department
Trinity College Dublin
Ireland

30 August 2002

Mr. Davíð Oddsson,
The Prime Minister of Iceland
Stjornarradshusinu vid Laekjartorg
150 Reykjavik
Iceland

Dear Prime Minister,

My name is Zhao Ming. I am a postgraduate student doing a Master's Degree in Computer Science at Trinity College Dublin of Ireland. I am writing this letter to you in hopes that my personal experience of being persecuted as a Falun Gong practitioner can give you another angle in considering having a dialogue with Falun Gong practitioners.

At the end of 1999, I returned from Dublin to China for the Christmas holidays. During the holiday, I went to the Central State Appeals Office to appeal for Falun Gong, because I had been practicing and benefiting from Falun Gong for years but China's government banned it in July 1999. However the police arrested me for this very legal and peaceful appeal and confiscated my passport. So I could not get back to Ireland to continue my studies. I was escorted back to my home city and released there. But in May 2000, I was arrested again when I was visiting my friend, a Ph.D. student, in his dormitory. This time, I was put in the labour camp and was kept there for altogether 22 months before being released in March this year.

In the labour camp in a Beijing suburb I was tortured badly by the police guards with methods including deprivation of sleep, beating, being forced to squat for long hours, and electric shocks. Ten inmates who were under orders by the police guards in the camp once beat me together, which made my thighs black all over with bruises and made me unable to walk for two weeks after that. Two weeks before I was released, I was shocked with 6 electric batons by 5 policemen while tied up on a bed board. In a period of two weeks, I was forced to squat for over 10 hours a day and only allowed to rest on a small bench for 1 to 2 hours per day, which made my lower legs and feet still suffer from a lack of feeling even now.

Due to the effort made by the Irish Premier, the Irish Foreign Minister, Amnesty International, UN Human Rights High Commissioner Ms. Mary Robinson and some Members of European Parliament, I was released and returned to Ireland in March this year. I have resumed my studies in Trinity College Dublin. And I have been using all my spare time to disclose this evil persecution happening in China to the western world and to ask for people's help to stop this persecution.

In June, when Chinese President Jiang Zemin visited Iceland, I flew to Reykjavik to protest against the persecution perpetrated by Jiang. As a student I could not afford the flight ticket. Fellow practitioners funded my trip. I went to Reykjavik because I wanted to show to Jiang Zemin that a righteous belief will never be changed and that a righteous voice will never be suppressed. I also went to Reykjavik for the sake of the Icelandic people. I wanted to disclose the evil of Jiang to the Icelandic people.

What I experienced in China was not a rare case carried out by individual policemen but a common situation that is happening all over China done by the police systematically under the order of Jiang Zemin. Early this year he issued a "kill without mercy" order for practitioners caught putting up Falun Gong flyers. Jiang is ultimately responsible for all of this persecution.

This time Jiang's regime is not driving tanks onto Tiananmen Square or killing people with automatic weapons like in 1989. But this persecution of Falun Gong practitioners is actually very brutal, vicious and on a larger scale. All the practitioners in China, which number close to 100 million, are deprived of their rights of belief, assembly, and even of life and freedom. Including their family members, the number of people affected by the persecution is huge. The number of practitioners tortured to death known to us is 462, and it is increasing every week. The total number is believed to be much bigger, no less than that of the 1989 Tiananmen massacre. I also learned that my good friend and schoolmate Mr Jiang Yuan was among them. He was tortured to death last year in his home city in Gansu Province. A month ago I learned that my friend Mr Chengtao Lin, who is still imprisoned in the labour camp that I was held in, was tortured into losing his sanity by electric shocking.

After experiencing those atrocities personally, I would say that the on-going persecution of Falun Gong is really inhuman and completely evil. What the persecutors would achieve through all the torture is only to pressure the practitioners to renounce their belief in Falun Gong. If any practitioner was successfully forced to renounce Falun Gong by torture, which was actually against his/her true will, they would feel very contented and then they would find a TV journalist to record his renouncing and show it to the whole country through Chinese Central TV. In CCTV news there are such programs regularly shown to justify the persecution. But actually those are all fabricated to deceive the general population of the whole country. What the persecutors are doing is actually violating the Chinese laws as well.

In addition, Jiang Zemin is trying to extend this persecution worldwide. He is using the same tricks of deception to coax western government leaders into limiting Falun Gong practitioners' freedom of speech and assembly in those countries. You may not be able to imagine that a government leader of a big country can be that base and shameless. But it is true. He is not a rational person that has a normal mind. The 3 years history has sufficiently proven that we are peaceful people; we are not a threat to anybody or any government. We have been done nothing violent despite all the torture and killing that we have endured. There is not any reason that can justify such treatment of innocent people. The only reason for this persecution is that Jiang Zemin is evil!

So in June of this year, I was really shocked when I learned that your government was barring peaceful Falun Gong practitioners from entering Iceland, while welcoming this murderer whose hands are stained with the blood of the Chinese people. In 1989 after the Tiananmen massacre, all western countries were condemning the actions of the Chinese government and stopped communicating with those Chinese government leaders. In fact, Jiang got his position because of his support of the massacre. In recent years, Jiang was named by human rights organizations as the worst in the world in violating human rights. The crackdown and brutal persecution of Falun Gong was completely dictated by him.

I believe that you, a leader of a country that has been famous for its democracy and low crime rate, were deceived by Jiang's regime and did not know the truth. Now it is a great time to rethink the whole thing and repair the damage. As you know, this is also the will of Icelandic people.

Mr. Prime Minister, this is really a serious matter. Please do not go on with this not repaired any longer, as it would damage the reputation of you and your country.

Sincerely Yours,

Ming Zhao

 

I found this interesting. The CCP is not persecuting Falun Gong member ONLY in China, but is reaching out to bring those that have escaped their repression BACK into their grasp. I wonder why the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Phnom Penh felt it necessary to protect these Chinese refugees from return to the PRC? Notice the United 'Nations,' not the United 'States...'

AP: Cambodian police admit deporting Falun Gong members, but say they were unaware of U.N. protection
(8/29/2002 12:42)

PHNOM PENH, Cambodia - Cambodia's national police chief has admitted for the first time that two Chinese Falun Gong members were arrested and deported earlier this month, but claimed the police did not know they were under U.N. protection...Gen. Hok Lundy told reporters Wednesday that the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees in Phnom Penh did not inform local authorities that asylum seekers Li Guojun and his wife Zhang Xinyi were under its protection...Hok Lundy's comments are the first public acknowledgment by a Cambodian official that the couple were forcibly returned to China...According to Falun Gong activists in New York the couple were arrested Aug. 2 and deported Aug. 9 to China. They had arrived in Cambodia in 1998 from China...The incident attracted international attention because the two were deemed "persons of concern" by the United Nations, and Cambodia was obligated by international law to prevent them from being sent to China...
Falun Gong is a spiritual meditation group banned by China in 1999 as a threat to national security...Hok Lundy said the two were deported for being "illegal immigrants" and at the "request of the Chinese Embassy."

 

For michecon and panda, I thought this might help you find some backing for your claims about the legitimacy of the crackdown on Falun Gong. I know you normally use the official CCP site for your information, but now you can use google.com...

The Australian: China censors bowl net users a Googly
(CATHERINA ARMITAGE 9/5/2002 10:29)

CHINA'S netizens are in shock this week at the loss of highly prized search tool Google. As people logged into their workstations on Monday morning the news spread that Google.com, the US-based internet search engine, had been blocked.

In information-starved China, Google is gold, and its loss has been the focus of dismay around office water coolers all week.

Even the normally deadpan Foreign Ministry spokesman at a regular media briefing was put out. Asked why Google had been banned, Kong Quan urged the journalist to contact officials at the relevant government department and ask them.

"I always use Yahoo and Google and other search engines," he said.

Google.com confirmed the block in a statement, saying: "We are currently working with Chinese officials to get our full service restored to the millions of Chinese who depend on Google every day." While websites with content deemed offensive or subversive are routinely put out of service in China, this is the first time a search engine has been blocked. "They are basically saying there are too many sites for them to block, so blocking the search engine is more effective," said Duncan Clark, managing director of internet consultancy firm BDA China.

"But from a public relations point of view - not that they care - it is idiotic."

There was speculation the block was part of a campaign to "maintain a sound environment" during a sensitive political period, the run-up to the 16th Communist Party congress in November.

The fact that a Google search for "Jiang Zemin" turns up, on the first page, a Falun Gong site listing the Chinese President's "crimes" against the banned spiritual movement would no doubt have offended the authorities. The same search using competing search engine Yahoo delivers just one listing - an official biography of the Chinese President.

 

Many posters on this board at least consider the possibility that a US President would start a war to increase domestic popularity. Is it possible the same thing is happening in the PRC?

"As CNN's Willy Lam reported a Communist Party veteran providing his analysis: "By unleashing a Mao-style movement [against Falun Gong], Jiang is forcing senior cadres to pledge allegiance to his line. This will boost Jiang's authority-and may give him enough momentum to enable him to dictate events at the pivotal 16th Communist Party congress next year."

 

You and panda cried out for my return, so here I am. Hayes. H-A-Y-E-S.

michecon, everytime you enter a discussion you either 'do not have time' to write a coherent and substantiated response, or the 'issue is too complex to discuss here.' Why bother entering the discussion and then turn around and run away? Save yourself some time and just pass.

As I've pointed out, the CCP does NOT see a difference, as it has persecuted MANY of those 'other harmonizing religions,' including what you earlier claimed to practice.

How so?

True. But that has no bearing on Falun Gong.

If one were to compare the 'official' CCP line on each of these controversies, one would find your conclusions similar, if not word for word the same.

Tie22 pretty much said the crackdown was because the CCP felt their power base was threatened. I don't think that is wrong so there was no reason to disagree. He also said he thought it might break up Chinese families, but then he said AmWay was a threat to Chinese families, so...

Strange that the CCP would be opposed to Qi Gong 'superstition' then. Or more relevant to this discussion, that you would support thier persecution.

He is 'raper?' What does that mean?

Torture, beatings to death, 20000 sent to labor camps. I think 'leaves a lot to be desired' is an understatement.

If the crackdown is politically motivated, as the treatment of practitioners suggests, then it is relevant.

That would be irrelevant to our discussion. But feel free to start a thread about US police brutality. One significant difference you'll find is that their orders don't come from one old guy trying to do whatever he can to retain his power.

OK, so we can't trust Chinese who are from the PRC but disagree with the CCP, we can't trust Western press, we can't trust international organizations devoted to monitoring human rights...we can only trust Chinese who agree with the CCP. It must be nice to live in such an insulated world, michecon, lol.

That is irrelevant to this discussion. Again start a US thread if you'd like, and we'll talk about it there. Don't try and obsfucate this discussion.

Well, in most places we have unfettered access to the INTERNET. I know its not like that in the PRC. Try a google search.

You know many, huh? Why are you hanging out with all those criminals, michecon? You have nothing to substantiate that the letter I posted is from such a person.

I won't hint at anything. I am against MOST of the CCP policies. This is a discussion you asked for so don't run away now. I have been nothing but ON POINT since the beginning of the thread.

Its coming.

 

Your point one was answered.

Again, is that why his version of Qi Gong, which is the largest, is being targeted by the government? Or is it another attempt by the CCP to discredit someone with followers as a 'hooligan,' or a 'criminal?'

Sorry, michecon. I don't understand this.

It could be absolutely correct in some instances. But in and of itself it is silly to think it proves you correct and me incorrect. It doesn't present the whole picture. People spoke that the world was not round, even though they hadn't sailed it.

 

"Before the ban on Falun Gong, the authorities arrested more than 21,000 people during the ''anti-superstition'' campaign. The crackdown is now being extended to other Qi Gong groups which like the Falun Gong, promote breathing and meditation exercises. Qi Gong is practiced by millions of people in China in many variants."

It would seem that you are incorrect, and that Qi Gong is being targeted by the CCP.

 

Not yet. But you will be when the CCP finds out you are practicing Qi Gong.