What is Alperen Şengün's trade value? [Trade value poll series]

jokic is 16.7 pts on 11.7fga
Sengun is 14.8 on 10.7 fga

jokic is 4.9 assists
Sengun is 3.9

jokic is 9.8 trb 2.9 orb
Sengun is 9 trb 3.2 orb

you can go on the other stats in detail but they are pretty much the same. Sengun would have had , probably significantly, more assists under any coach other than Silas.

you are basically saying Sengun has reached is peak and is all nba player. Denver made jokic a main part of their playmaking in mid 2nd season, rockets did the same for 3 weeks where he averaged 7 assists.

Sengun statistically is on par with jokic. How you interpret its implications is up to you. But It is a fact regardless of his fans or what you think about them.

 

Couldn’t care less about counting stats, this isn’t 1990. Look at his metrics, jokic was an all nba level player his 2nd season. Sengun has not come remotely close to jokic so far. Is peak sengun can be 2nd year jokic for 5-6 seasons in his prime, you’re talking about a consistent allstar/all nba 3rd team type player. I would be THRILLED if sengun developed into that.

As an example, brad beal has never had a season on par with 2nd year jokic

 

Brad Beal also plays a completely different position lmao

The main difference is, midway through Jokic's first season, Denver decided to properly commit to him and build around him, whatever may come.

The Rockets yet have to make that move.

Of course, that had an impact on Jokic's production and his stats, and the team's success.

All these "this archetype doesn't win in the playoffs" folks are looking like idiots (again) now. @maj21

I'm here for a Jokic vs. Embiid final. Not only have the last MVPs all been Centers, we might see them square up against each other in the NBA finals.

 

I think jokic is the best player in the nba easily, i love center play above all else. I just believe that to build around a no defense center, he has to be a GOAT level player. Someone like sabonis, i would have no interest in paying a max. I know you think Sengun will be a jordan level guy (which jokic basically is at this point) but that’s just SO rare and SO unlikely for anyone, let alone a small center who can’t shoot

 

He is not a "no defense center". Tired of posting the stats again and again to show that the stereotype is wrong. Kanter was a no defense big man. Sengun isn't.

Sengun is already better on defense and overall than DeAndre Ayton, who by the way signed a max $ 132m contract.

 

And i’d have zero interest in ayton

 

You are not specifying which metrics you campare. Most advanced metrics(maybe all) are designed to be additive, meaning that their total gives the corresponding number for the team. Winshares add to the total number of wins, bpm add to the team net rating etc. So it really doesn't make good sense to compare Jokic on a 40+ win team to sengun on a 22 win team(net rating -8.1) with no vet, no pg or back up pg and the worst coach in the nba. So actually it is the advanced metrics that would not give a meaningful comparison here.

There are situations where you might think the counting stat comparison is not good such as:

1) The player does it on bad efficiency, puts up volume numbers
2) The player stat pads
3) the player gets the good stats at the expense of the others
4) The player causes fundamental problems to the team offense

None of these are true for Sengun(quite the opposite sengun makes other players better). We are not talking about Christian Wood or KPJ style play here. Sengun is not a ball hog, has not problem sharing the ball, decision making is generally good. When you watch sengun, do you think his style, shot/pass selection effects the team negatively? I don't. That basically says his counting stats are a fairly good estimate of his impact.

 

So sophomore Jokic averaged 16.7 ppg, .324 from behind the line (1.9 attempts), 4.9 assists, 9.8 rebounds, 81% ft. I feel like these numbers are very reachable for prime Sengun. In fact i wouldn't be shocked if he averages those numbers next season if he's given enough mins.

 

Nobody knows about the minutes because half of the team could look different, could be revamped for all we know.

Udoka has to select his coaching staff, the Draft has to happen, trades or signings have to happen.

That is why Clutchfans have been speculating while the real heroes play the Playoffs.

 

Let’s see if he can win a championship. I’ve also that person would have to be a top player in the league offensively. Jokic is all time great and Sengun will never be that

 

The Ole let's see if he can win a ring stance. Such a low iq stance.

Harden is a choker bc he never wins a ring.
Sengun can never b great bc he never wins a ring.

Etc etc etc. If u hate someone just say he can never win a ring. Lame.

 

The 'building around' is used too casually and usually out of context in this forum. I think this is a consequence of the harden era. The only players you really (might) need to 'build around' are Harden or Luka, and that is in the case you want to maximize their output, which does not necessarily mean the team's output is maximized. An older harden with more playmaking than isos, with Embiid can be more successful than the young, all time best individual offense Harden.

In that context, you don't need to build around Sengun. You just need a coach that wants to and is able to utilize him in offense to his full potential. The thing the rockets did with Silas and KPJ, instead we should have done it with a coach and Sengun and Green(and now bari and tari included). If it doesn't work out you can always use Sengun in a different way, or get rid of him, without making any big commitments. But with the obvious talent, and the luck of drafting him, it would be a huge mistake if the rockets doesn't fully explore things with him.

 

Excellent post!

 

All very fair, I pretty much agree with all of it. Kpj was/is a waste of time. I just don’t think there’s any world he can be jokic, and if the ultimate goal is competing for a title it’s a waste of time in the long run. If i was a kings fan i would want to trade sabonis, as opposed to a max. But cross that bridge when we get there with alpi.

 

I agree that it is very likely that he won't be as good as Jokic. I don't agree with the second part though. It is all about team construction and how pieces fit in. Best teams win championships, not best players. And being shy, or the expectation of that, of an all-time great shouldn't deter you to invest in someone.

I wouldn't max Sabonis either. (But maxing someone depends on many factors, every team has to max someone, and not everyone can get the actual max players.) I find Sabonis to be a very limited player and still you can do a hell of a good offense with him. I think, most people think Sengun is either going to be Sabonis level and not Jokic level, leading to the thinking 'it is not worth trying'. But the two are worlds apart and there is so much room in between. My projection is Sengun is gonna be clearly better than Sabonis, and kind of a unique player, very likely that there won't be a player similar to him, same as you don't have players similar to Jokic. And that's a player I would keep in the team, until we know what the final product looks like.

 

Sengun might not get to the level of Jokic but is do believe he is a 20 and 10 guy and multi all star player

 

I'm glad you brought this up because I went and looked it up and was really surprised. He might be the most impactful 17/10/5 guy playing 27 minutes of all time. Jokic is really special.

 

He's probably a top 3 passer of all time if not number 1, and is probably the number 1 offensive player ever (i'd probably say steph to a lesser degree and jordan are in his class, but he's probably 1st). He's just extremely underrated and underappreciated. His current 3 year run is in line with the best 3 year run for guys like lebron and jordan, and he's already blown away anything from the shaq/duncan/hakeem levels.

 

Look at Jokic's age his 2nd season. What is it? Then look at how Alpi's numbers the month they did run things through him. Not just his personal stats but Green's efficiency.