What If We Kicked All Illegal Aliens Out of the US...

I don't want to be disrespectful or rude...but how can you say, on one hand, that the possible effects are exaggerated and on the other hand say you think there are a lot more than 12 million immigrants here? There would be a tremendous impact to removing 12 million people from an economy.

 

A certain former poster known for his angry approach to buddhism.

 

This study doesn't surprise me at all and I've said many of the same things before:
http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=129906&highlight=illegal+immigration

This country needs immigration and we aren't going to be able to maintain our economy without it. People are complaining about $4 a gallon gas now consider if food costs, service costs and housing costs also shot up because there wasn't the cheap labor to handle that.

My solution would be to legalize the situation we have now and make it much much easier to enter this country through granting a lot of work visas, or even just making our legal border crossings more legal. I believe that if those coming here illegally now knew they could relatively easily come and go we would see a lot of the problems with sneaking across the borders disapear and even the permanent influx of illegals settling here go down as those working seasonal employment would probably go home in the off season.

 

To me . .The Idea that Americans would not do these jobs is faulty

I find it funny that people will say
The Market will drive the wages a person makes
then
will allow for a 'cheat' such as this to artificially drive down the Wages

That is just special

Rocket River

 

I believe that by illegal job he meant a job that hires a person that is in the country illegally, thus making it illegal to hire that person.

As for George W. Bush, he isn't a liberal but he sure as hell is not a conservative either.

 

I agree with the notion that this isn't an economic issue.

I know people who spent years and years of their lives and thousands of dollars to get here legally. It's a slap in the face to those people who respected our laws and process enough to do things the right way.

It likely would hurt our economy, I agree. To me, that's not the main issue.

I also have a hard time with people who don't at least attempt to assimilate themselves by learning the common language of the country and putting the land that gave them opportunity ahead of the land that obviously didn't. This doesn't have any effect on the argument I make, however, as I still see the issue as one of legality and respect for the process.

 

SO
The Economic Machine requires a little corruptive grease to function?
A little illegality?

Rocket River

 

Some people are more desperate and needy than others, especially more than those that you know who can wait years and years and spend thousands of dollars to get here. The ones who get here illegally are desperate and brave enough to risk their lives crossing the border or ocean and are willing to borrow thousands to get here, no matter if they have to live here in exclusion.

Why do you think it's so easy to learn a new language? As if all it takes is desire. Well, the fact of the matter is most people will find it almost impossible to learn a new language past the age of 12. There are also some who can, but don't want to, and why should they? Se habla español, oprima dos para español, Univision and Telemundo, etc., and Spanish is a beautiful language; however, the more ambitious ones will learn, the rest can and will get by without it.

Why do you think foreigners are supposed to love this country more than the one they were born and raised in? If you one day had to leave home and were adopted by millionaires, would you love them more than your biological, but poor parents? Maybe a poor analogy, but you get the point. Besides, that kind of attitude stems from the belief that we are the greatest country on Earth, most foreigners do not believe that America is the greatest; in the end, the only difference they see between the U.S. and México or Guatemala or Colombia or China or wherever is $.

The (American) Economic Machine requires cheap labor and population growth.

 

they pay for their healthcare and education costs because they pay local taxes. income taxes are progressive and thus those making 6-15 bucks an hour don't pay much anyway.

and you probably are a despicable racist since you use terms like anchor babies.

 

kicking out all 12 million+ would be unrealistic and unfeasible.

to me, as a LEGAL immigrant who had to wait over 15 years to gain citizenship (and 10 years for permanent residency), I would be pissed as all hell if there were some sort of amnesty. People should not be rewarded for breaking the law.

That said, I'm not in favor of deporting the majority of illegal immigrants. What I'd like to see is the dropping of support for ESL programs. When you go to chinatown you're not expected to speak chinese, the schools aren't taught in chinese, so why the hell should latinos get preferential treatment? Just because there are a lot of them?

Also, I can't stand working with immigrants who refuse to learn basic english. No, I don't want to speak to you through your translator friend. Seriously it's not that hard to learn a few freaking phrases in a language that's not all that dissimilar from your own.

 

A perfect example of an armchair philosopher who thinks he has all the answers. Some people are more desperate and needy? So what, when someone is hungry and breaks into a store and steals some food, they get jailed or fined for it. Saying it's somehow magically okay because they were more "desperate and needy" (lol like you know how desperate and needy legal immigrants are amiright?) is like saying we should give child molesters jobs at elementary schools because "they're desperate and needy."

So why the hell would we, the english speaking people, have to learn THEIR language? The "inability to learn" works both ways, pal.

facepalm.jpg

Oh, IDK...maybe because THEY CAME OVER HERE TO LIVE.

What? If I ran away from home (a more apt analogy) to be with millionaire adoptive parents, I'd probably love them more.

There's absolutely no proof that Americans cannot provide cheap labor. Population growth is not a problem if Congress would see fit to expand the LEGAL immigration vectors.

 

First of all I don't know where the thousands of dollars is coming from,

I have personally helped 2 people (still working with one) to get papers legally.

It is not that expensive. I did have to fill out some financials kind of like guarantee on a loan. But I didn't have to pay anything myself to be the sponsor.

I worked through an organization in Houston, it is a Catholic Charity and they do an outstanding job of helping people get legal.

One case came through our church and the other case came through my job. Besides pastor I also work as a Human Resource Manager for a company in Houston.

I deal with this all the time because over 50% of our workforce comes from Mexico.

Most of the time I am trying to work with some of our employees to get legal work permits if needed.

We could play dumb and ignore illegal immigrants but we don't operate that way. We try our best to help those we can get papers. We lay off any that can't or won't do it.

It is not that expensive but it is a very tedious and trying process. I still don't know what all goes in to it, because basically all I have done personally is sponsor people and fill out papers and sign my name for those I have tried to help.

Another manager in our company is working with someone right now to get them legal permit to work.

 

That is about right.

 

They might but at what costs? For that matter given that we have a shortage of workers for even well paying high tech jobs, GP's and nurses along with unemployment still at around 5% it doesn't look like Americans are stepping up to fill those jobs.

Its not artificially driving down wages as the market naturally seeks to produce at the lowest cost OTOH by putting an artificial legal impediment is what affects wages.

If anything its the other way around. The problem with our immigration laws is that they are out of step with the economic reality and when there is such a case either the economy doesn't function well since the barriers isn't market driven, or else there is a huge impetus to skirt the law. We are seeing the later. Skirting the law though means that most of that is done through a black market that by nature is beyond the control of regulation so the very presence of the black market works against the idea of trying to control it. So if your idea is to somehow prop up wages through regulation by creating a barrier to the free flow of labor you are actually contributing to the problem you are trying to stop.

 

It absolutely is an economic issue. The problem with the argument of fairness is that the immigration laws and procedures we have are an artificial impediment that doesn't recognize the market driven realities that we face.

We can set up all sorts of laws but if they are so out of step towards what the market and societal reality there is a strong impetus to break them to the point where law breaking is ubiquitous. Consider Prohibition. Yes all those speakeasies were breaking the law and it wasn't fair to those who legally wanted to drink but didn't because it was the law. That said the law was clearly out of step with the realities of the market and society that for the most part wanted to drink.

The problem with an artificial legal impediment is that it leaves it to the black market to fill the void which brings along a host of other problems that we saw during prohibition.

 

If you want to immigrants to learn English why are you for dropping ESL? You say immigrants should learn English yet are making it harder for them to do so.

 

Except you don't know if who you're hiring is legal or illegal. They have to provide documents. When they do, you don't know if they're real or not.

 

why so dogmatic about these laws in particular? you'd wreck the economy to preserve these laws? laws get changed all the time. change these and let's move on.

 

so which ones do you want to get deported? the ones who don't speak english?

 

You became a sponsor then. Someone going through this needs a sponsor. Which means you guarantee huge expenses they encounter if they can't pay them. For instance...if the person you sponsor gets in a car accident and needs surgery, you're paying for it. You will be personally liable for those obligations, as I understand it. My closest friend aside from my wife, a guy from my church, just did this for a relative stranger. There is considerable risk, needless to say. That lasts until such time as the immigrant has paid $x dollars into the system or until he's a citizen, whichever comes first.

Immigration attorneys bill thousands of dollars to do this the right way. People save thousands of dollars for years and years before they can hire an attorney to assist with this. We did it once in my office for a guy who came over from Brazil to start a church here. We were ultimately paid by the Presbytery here in Houston. But that's the last time we'll do it. It's very detailed and confusing to do it right. There is a very small niche of immigration attorneys in Houston, a city teeming with immigrants, for that very reason.