<i> aelliott, Mo isn't KG, but he rarely was put in playmaking situations. Most of his time he was utilitzed as a spot up shooter. He got maybe 3 post up oppurtunities a game, because of the offense that was run. The offense led to a mediocre assist total for Francis. Fortunately for the Rockets, the way to win a basketball game is not by assists.</i> Are you saying that Taylor is only a good playmaker when he posts up? If that's the case, then you just killed your own argument. He flat out doesn't like to post up. He didn't do it at Michigan, he didn't do it in LA and he hasn't done it here. The guys that I mentioned (Ben Wallace, Williams, Ervin Johnson, Dudley, etc..) get even fewer post ups than Taylor. Nobody consider's those guys good passers, yet somehow they managed to get more assists in a game than Taylor. How's that possible? <i>I can also get you Carroll Dawson quotes where he went out of his way to say Mo is a good passer. </i> I can also provide you quotes where Dawson talks about Thomas Hamilton's skills, so what's the point? Can you show me anyplace that Dawson or Rudy has ever said anything bad about one of our guys? Complements are nice, but at some point, you've got to produce on the court. Rudy was talking about Moochie's defense at the press conference after his signing , but do you really consider Norris a great defender? <i>Single game highs are fun stats, but more or less meaningless IMO. Would you say Dana Barros is a better scorer than Steve Francis? By the same token, should we praise Mo's rebounding prowess because he snagged 20 once</i> You're pointing to the exception case (1 out of 248 games) and I'm talking about the entire 248 games that Taylor has played . Obviously,having one big game in a single satistical category doesn't prove that the player is great in that area. But that is a very different thing than a player never producing a single game to demonstrate an ability. The case you are sighting (Taylor's 20 rebound game) should be taken for what it is, a single game out of 248 games that Taylor has played in the NBA. So, in that case, no it doesn't mean that he's a great rebounder. Over the majority of the other 247 games, he's proved that he's not even an averaget rebounder. But the fact that Taylor hasn't produced over 5 assists in a single game out of 248 that he's played, does say something. Don't you agree that performance over 248 games is more telling than performance in a single game out of those 248? If you want to say Taylor is a good shooter, fine. But, to say that he's "brilliant at creating for others" is ridiculous. If he was a good passer, there's no way that he wouldn't have had a single game out of 248 where he could have had more than 5 assists, no matter what the situation. Just because Taylor's stength is his offense, that doesn't mean that he's a good passer. There's plenty of great offensive players that are not good passers.
aelliot well u can talk about a "career high game" of assists all you want but one game does not make any of them a better passer or player then mo taylor. its one game. mo taylor isnt that great of a passer but career high games dont mean that much. i take it becuz scott skiles had a 30 assist game he will always be remembered as ten times better then steve francis? i take it becuz david robinson scored 71 a higher career high in points that he had a better career then michael jordan? one game is one game.
I agree with NIKE and The Cat on Mo's passing and ability to play strongside with the guards. It boggles my mind that people continue to excuse Francis for the worst Ast to TO ratio for a PG by saying he is a hybrid PG or some other excuse. The biggest reason is because last year's offense was designed around a strong side attack that left most open players more than one pass away. In comparison to other teams, the Rocket's playmakers don't have the assist opportunities that other teams do. Who cares as long as the open player got the ball? You cannot look at assists to say Mo cannot be a high-post passing player, or Mobley never passes, or Francis is a relative ball-hog for PGs (which many non-Rockets fans say). Can't we just see Mo' and Kenny's instinctive passing and say they have those skills unlike the Willis and Othella types? Utilizing high-post passing as a team is tough. We will see this year whether this team can do it...we've already seen flashes of it, though. I'm sick that Mo' won't get a chance to show his stuff. Mo is young and already has the some of the best range and mobility of any PFs in the league. Isn't the argument really that his offense doesn't compensate for his rebounding? Please don't say this guy is not a talented shooter and dribbler for a PF, nor say he is some type of black-hole who can't or won't pass or, otherwise, play within a team concept. imo, Kenny and Mo' have skills for being a solid high-post pivot tandem against these zones. Griffin will be the low post player. It is as easy as that. And even if you have to put Mo' and Kenny in as big 3s to get the shotblockers Griffin and Cato on the court (longterm), well, how does that hurt you other than making it hard to change your Dreamcaster settings to suit atypical players at the 3. Isn't the 3 position one of the most atypical positions, anyhow? I think there is a reason for that.
This can also be evidenced by the Rockets big men assist totals. Mo actually had the highest assist average amongst Rockets big men (Mo, KT, Cato, Collier, Hakeem). Hakeem's 1.2 average is less than 1/2 his career average. Assists are the RBI of basketball. They're very much a function of the offensive scheme and players around you. aelliott-My reference to Mo's 20 reb. game is a reference to the lack of meaning of Ben Wallace, Dikembe Mutumbo, Shawn Bradley, and whoever else having a higher single game high than Mo.
NIKE, You know there is another thing people conveniently forget, Mo' only played 29mpg last year. What are Mo's stats if he played 38 mpg like all the players people compare him to. Would anyone here say Nowitzki can't pass? Would anyone say Nowitzki's 2.1 assists in 38 mpg is better than Mo's? I'm not trying to make a stat argument regarding extrapolating Mo out to 10 more minutes per game, just pointing out what Puedlfor is saying--that Mo is an excellent complementary player who not only puts up solid numbers for 29 mpg, but also doesn't complain about playing time. This again shows that fitting Griffin in with him should be no problem. Mo is as young as Francis. I can't see us getting better any time soon by trading Mo, and he doesn't demand more PT or touches. Sounds like a perfect complementary player to me.
"Sounds like a perfect complementary player to me." Thats exactly what he's here for. He isnt here to get rebounds or to dish out 5 dimes a game. Willis, Cato, and Eddie will get the rips. Our offense isnt very assist oriented unless mooch or tierre are in the game. Mo is someone we should definitely keep. Keep in mind how young he is. It was also said by Rudy that Mo was working extremely hard on his gam, and would be much improved.
Dude, the best frontcourt player for the Rockets is on IR....his name is Mo Taylor. He's more important than Glen Rice. If you can't see the offensive skills this guy has, you don't know basketball. Pee-u's first post was right on target. When Mo comes back next year, we simply move Griffin to the 5-spot...what's the problem? Mo is just a flat-out basketball player. The drop-off we are experiencing with KT starting instead of Mo is quite significant.
<i>aelliot well u can talk about a "career high game" of assists all you want but one game does not make any of them a better passer or player then mo taylor. its one game. mo taylor isnt that great of a passer but career high games dont mean that much. i take it becuz scott skiles had a 30 assist game he will always be remembered as ten times better then steve francis? i take it becuz david robinson scored 71 a higher career high in points that he had a better career then michael jordan? one game is one game.</i> TeXaSalsa, Did you even read my last post? Did you not see where I said : "Obviously,having one big game in a single satistical category doesn't prove that the player is great in that area. But that is a very different thing than a player never producing a single game to demonstrate an ability. The case you are sighting (Taylor's 20 rebound game) should be taken for what it is, a single game out of 248 games that Taylor has played in the NBA. So, in that case, no it doesn't mean that he's a great rebounder. Over the majority of the other 247 games, he's proved that he's not even an average rebounder. " The point was not who had the higher career high, it was that I found it funny that Taylor's passing could be called "brilliant" when he's never had more than five assists in a game during his 4 year career. I mentioned those other guy's career highs to show that even bad passers were putting up numbers equal or better to Taylor's. In your previous post, you yourself agreed that Taylor "isn't that great of a passer". That was my whole point, I don't think that you can be "brilliant at creating for teammates", if after 4 years, you haven't been able to do better than 5 assists in a single game.
Has Maurice Taylor had a stat line that read: 32 points 15 rebounds 8 assists ? Never. He has never come close. He has never has been compared to the marquee forwards like Karl Malone or Chris Webber. He can't compare. He's way below their league. Has he single-handedly won a game for any team he's played for ? I don't think so. Maurice Taylor ain't no flat out basketball player. He's a soft pretender. He's a wimp. He's mediocre. He should be be waived.
my bad aelliot. did not see that last post of urz. but still while mo taylor isnt john stockton i still think hes a better passer then the average big man in the league, and is a key contributor to our team.
As the season progresses and Eddie gets better we hope, this thread will become larger and larger. It will have its pro's and con's of Taylor vs Griffin or whatever. I mean I can pull stats out my ass all day to "prove" my point about what I think about Taylor. I think, well I know I watch alot of basketball, but I'm no expert, its just an opinion just like everyone else. I just know of all the games I've seen him play, I just don't see what everyone see. Yes, he has a nice jumper, but why not a jump hook? I see the offensive capabilities, but I also see the non presence close to the basket. Should a pg be the toughest guy on your team? Should he have to go into the trees and get rebounds and start the break. I mean Francis is good, but he's not 6'9 like Magic. Taylor has some skills, but I just think his weakness outweigh his strengths. We have a good problem to have right now as opposed to a couple of seasons ago we had an injured C and PF and a rookie point unknown. Taylor will be back next yr, how far back is the question because I have yet to see a player have an achilles injury and come back and be the same or close to the same player. He has a long term deal, but so did brent price,matt maloney, and othella harrington, but we got rid of them. Will we trade him if Eddie matures faster than we think, only Rudy and Carrol know that answer. I do know this though, if eddie has a good rookie yr 12 pts 8 reb and a couple of blocks, whats the need of Taylor? I mean if we can get that kind of production out of a first yr player, why mess it up? Its going to be fun to see how long this thread goes on, but no matter if you like him or not,we're all rocket fans and hope the best for the team.
Why ? Why was it Eddie Jones vs Kobe Bryant? Looking at the trade and everyone knew it had to happen, do you think the Lakers made the right choice? Why is because they play the same position no if ands or buts about it. If we draft Jason Williams wouldn't it be the same?
