Just stop talking man. You have a really poor eye for the game. You seem to care a lot more about aesthetics than results. Kyle Lowry has not been abysmal since his hot shooting stretch. He runs the offense great, and this is reflected in him having the best adjusted +/- on the team. http://basketballvalue.com/teamplay...summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC&team=HOU Kevin Martin can't be a chucker when he is so efficient. In fact, he is #12 in TS% (.601) this season for qualified players and #19 all time (.600): http://www.basketball-reference.com...&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ts_pct http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ts_pct_career.html Compare that to Brooks' career .532 TS%. I wouldn't have classified him as a chucker before this year, but he is certainly closer to a chucker than Kevin Martin and seems to only be able to play in a lead dog role on offense even though he is clearly not the best offensive player on his team.
Career Totals Rebounds YR TM G MIN FG FG% 3P 3P% FT FT% STL BLK TO OFF DEF TOT AST PTS 04-05 SAC 45 455 45-117 .385 5-25 .200 36-55 .655 16 3 24 29 29 58 22 131 05-06 SAC 72 1913 262-546 .480 66-179 .369 188-222 .847 55 9 81 58 203 261 97 778 06-07 SAC 80 2818 505-1067 .473 127-333 .381 481-570 .844 98 11 135 69 273 342 173 1618 07-08 SAC 61 2216 417-914 .456 107-266 .402 502-578 .869 62 5 131 48 225 273 129 1443 08-09 SAC 51 1947 341-811 .420 115-277 .415 457-527 .867 61 8 146 29 154 183 138 1254 09-10 HOU 24 859 154-354 .435 31-100 .310 171-185 .924 23 2 57 9 61 70 54 510 10-11 HOU 50 1568 334-757 .441 111-274 .405 385-434 .887 45 9 110 17 135 152 116 1164 SPLIT G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS Total 50 31.4 6.7-15.1 44.122 2.2-5.5 .405 7.7-8.7 88.710 0.90 0.18 2.2 2.1 0.3 2.7 3.0 2.3 23.3 Home 23 32.2 7.1-16.0 44.565 1.9-5.0 .374 7.4-8.7 85.930 0.83 0.09 2.0 2.1 0.2 2.8 3.0 2.1 23.6 Road 27 30.7 6.3-14.4 43.702 2.5-5.9 .428 7.9-8.7 91.064 0.96 0.26 2.4 2.0 0.5 2.6 3.1 2.5 23.0 vs. Division 10 32.5 7.1-15.2 46.711 2.9-5.8 .500 7.6-8.2 92.683 1.20 0.30 2.4 2.6 0.2 3.0 3.2 1.2 24.7 vs. Conference 32 31.3 6.8-15.1 44.628 2.5-5.6 .447 7.4-8.2 90.458 0.91 0.25 2.3 2.3 0.4 2.4 2.8 2.4 23.4 0 Days Rest 14 29.8 5.9-13.6 42.932 2.1-5.1 .408 7.4-8.0 91.964 0.71 0.29 1.7 1.5 0.6 1.6 2.1 2.0 21.1 1 Days Rest 23 32.0 7.3-16.3 44.652 2.3-5.9 .400 7.7-8.9 86.275 1.09 0.09 2.3 1.9 0.3 2.8 3.1 2.5 24.5 2 Days Rest 9 31.1 6.2-14.4 43.077 2.0-5.3 .375 9.3-10.1 92.308 0.67 0.11 2.2 2.9 0.1 3.9 4.0 2.8 23.8 3+ Days Rest 3 35.7 7.0-15.0 46.667 2.3-4.7 .500 5.0-6.7 75.000 1.33 0.33 3.0 3.0 0.0 3.7 3.7 1.3 21.3 By Month G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS October 3 33.7 6.7-16.3 40.816 1.7-5.7 .294 10.0-10.0 100.000 0.33 0.67 2.3 2.3 0.3 2.0 2.3 3.3 25.0 November 14 33.3 6.4-14.4 44.059 2.4-5.4 .440 7.1-8.1 87.611 0.57 0.07 2.4 1.8 0.3 2.9 3.2 2.3 22.1 December 15 29.3 6.9-14.8 46.847 2.3-4.9 .466 7.8-8.8 88.636 1.00 0.20 2.1 2.1 0.3 2.8 3.1 2.0 23.9 January 15 30.1 6.7-15.7 42.553 2.0-6.0 .333 7.1-8.4 84.921 1.07 0.07 2.1 2.1 0.5 2.4 2.9 2.3 22.5 February 3 36.7 7.0-16.3 42.857 3.0-6.3 .474 10.7-11.0 96.970 1.67 0.67 2.3 2.7 0.0 3.3 3.3 3.0 27.7 Pre All-Star 50 31.4 6.7-15.1 44.122 2.2-5.5 .405 7.7-8.7 88.710 0.90 0.18 2.2 2.1 0.3 2.7 3.0 2.3 23.3 By Result G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS In wins 23 31.1 7.0-15.6 44.693 2.2-5.2 .420 8.2-9.1 89.524 0.91 0.13 2.2 1.9 0.3 3.0 3.3 2.3 24.3 In losses 27 31.6 6.4-14.8 43.609 2.3-5.7 .394 7.3-8.3 87.946 0.89 0.22 2.2 2.2 0.4 2.4 2.8 2.4 22.4 By Position G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS As Starting Guard 50 31.4 6.7-15.1 44.122 2.2-5.5 .405 7.7-8.7 88.710 0.90 0.18 2.2 2.1 0.3 2.7 3.0 2.3 23.3 As Starter 50 31.4 6.7-15.1 44.122 2.2-5.5 .405 7.7-8.7 88.710 0.90 0.18 2.2 2.1 0.3 2.7 3.0 2.3 23.3 By Day G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS Monday 7 31.7 6.7-16.1 41.593 2.0-4.7 .424 8.0-9.6 83.582 0.86 0.29 2.0 2.1 0.6 2.6 3.1 2.1 23.4 Tuesday 5 31.4 5.8-14.0 41.429 2.2-5.2 .423 8.0-8.6 93.023 0.60 0.40 2.8 2.4 0.2 3.2 3.4 2.6 21.8 Wednesday 13 30.9 6.3-14.7 42.932 2.5-6.0 .410 8.8-10.2 86.364 0.92 0.23 2.3 1.8 0.1 2.7 2.8 2.8 23.8 Thursday 1 35.0 7.0-15.0 46.667 2.0-7.0 .286 11.0-12.0 91.667 1.00 0.00 3.0 3.0 1.0 3.0 4.0 1.0 27.0 Friday 10 31.9 7.6-15.3 49.673 2.7-5.9 .458 7.8-8.5 91.765 1.00 0.20 2.0 2.2 0.4 2.6 3.0 1.4 25.7 Saturday 9 29.9 6.1-14.6 41.985 1.7-5.2 .319 7.0-7.6 92.647 0.78 0.00 1.9 1.9 0.1 2.9 3.0 2.1 20.9 Sunday 5 33.0 7.6-16.8 45.238 2.0-4.8 .417 4.6-5.4 85.185 1.20 0.00 2.4 2.0 1.0 2.2 3.2 3.4 21.8 By Opponent G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS vs. Atlanta 1 20.0 2.0-7.0 28.571 1.0-4.0 .250 5.0-5.0 100.000 0.00 0.00 2.0 1.0 0.0 3.0 3.0 0.0 10.0 vs. Charlotte 1 31.0 6.0-17.0 35.294 3.0-8.0 .375 1.0-2.0 50.000 0.00 0.00 1.0 2.0 0.0 3.0 3.0 2.0 16.0 vs. Chicago 2 35.0 5.0-12.5 40.000 1.0-4.0 .250 5.0-5.5 90.909 1.50 0.00 2.5 0.5 0.0 2.0 2.0 3.5 16.0 vs. Cleveland 1 34.0 12.0-19.0 63.158 3.0-6.0 .500 13.0-14.0 92.857 0.00 0.00 1.0 1.0 0.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 40.0 vs. Dallas 2 33.5 5.5-15.0 36.667 2.5-6.5 .385 8.5-9.0 94.444 0.50 0.50 1.5 2.0 0.5 3.0 3.5 0.5 22.0 vs. Denver 2 30.5 5.0-16.5 30.303 1.0-6.5 .154 3.5-3.5 100.000 0.00 0.00 2.5 2.0 0.5 2.5 3.0 3.0 14.5 vs. Detroit 1 26.0 3.0-8.0 37.500 1.0-2.0 .500 14.0-15.0 93.333 1.00 0.00 2.0 1.0 0.0 5.0 5.0 2.0 21.0 vs. Golden State 3 33.7 5.3-13.3 40.000 2.3-4.7 .500 14.7-15.0 97.778 0.67 0.33 1.7 1.7 1.0 1.7 2.7 3.0 27.7 vs. Indiana 1 33.0 6.0-14.0 42.857 1.0-6.0 .167 7.0-7.0 100.000 1.00 0.00 3.0 2.0 0.0 5.0 5.0 1.0 20.0 vs. LA Clippers 2 26.0 5.5-15.0 36.667 2.5-7.5 .333 4.5-5.5 81.818 1.00 0.00 1.5 2.0 0.0 4.5 4.5 2.5 18.0 vs. LA Lakers 3 31.0 7.3-16.3 44.898 2.3-6.0 .389 9.0-9.3 96.429 0.33 0.67 3.0 3.7 0.3 2.7 3.0 3.3 26.0 vs. Miami 1 32.0 7.0-16.0 43.750 1.0-5.0 .200 6.0-10.0 60.000 4.00 0.00 3.0 1.0 0.0 2.0 2.0 0.0 21.0 vs. Milwaukee 2 33.0 8.0-18.0 44.444 0.5-3.0 .167 13.0-15.5 83.871 0.50 0.00 0.5 2.5 0.5 2.0 2.5 2.5 29.5 vs. Minnesota 2 30.5 9.0-15.5 58.065 2.5-5.0 .500 7.0-10.0 70.000 2.00 0.00 3.0 1.5 0.5 0.5 1.0 2.5 27.5 vs. New Orleans 2 37.5 7.0-14.5 48.276 2.5-5.0 .500 5.5-7.5 73.333 1.50 0.00 3.5 3.5 0.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 22.0 vs. New York 2 35.5 7.0-18.0 38.889 2.5-8.5 .294 8.0-9.5 84.211 1.00 0.00 3.0 3.0 0.0 4.5 4.5 4.0 24.5 vs. Oklahoma City 3 31.0 6.7-14.7 45.455 3.0-4.7 .643 5.0-6.3 78.947 1.00 0.33 1.7 2.0 0.7 1.3 2.0 2.7 21.3 vs. Orlando 2 26.0 6.5-16.5 39.394 2.0-6.5 .308 7.5-9.0 83.333 0.00 0.00 0.5 1.0 0.5 1.5 2.0 1.5 22.5 vs. Phoenix 1 28.0 6.0-12.0 50.000 2.0-5.0 .400 5.0-6.0 83.333 0.00 0.00 2.0 5.0 0.0 2.0 2.0 2.0 19.0 vs. Portland 2 31.5 9.5-17.5 54.286 3.0-6.0 .500 8.0-9.0 88.889 1.50 0.00 2.5 2.5 1.5 2.5 4.0 4.0 30.0 vs. Sacramento 2 28.5 5.5-15.0 36.667 2.5-5.5 .455 4.5-4.5 100.000 0.00 0.00 3.5 2.0 0.0 2.5 2.5 3.0 18.0 vs. San Antonio 2 23.0 5.5-11.5 47.826 2.5-6.0 .417 3.5-4.0 87.500 0.50 0.00 3.0 2.5 0.0 3.0 3.0 1.5 17.0 vs. Utah 2 35.0 6.0-14.0 42.857 1.5-4.5 .333 7.5-8.5 88.235 1.00 0.50 1.5 0.5 0.5 1.5 2.0 3.0 21.0 vs. Washington 2 34.5 7.5-17.0 44.118 2.0-5.5 .364 8.5-10.0 85.000 1.00 0.50 2.5 2.0 0.0 7.0 7.0 3.0 25.5 vs. Toronto 2 31.0 7.0-14.0 50.000 2.5-4.5 .556 9.0-10.0 90.000 1.00 0.00 3.0 1.5 0.5 2.0 2.5 1.5 25.5 vs. Memphis 4 33.8 8.8-17.5 50.000 3.5-5.8 .609 10.3-10.3 100.000 1.75 0.50 2.0 2.5 0.3 3.5 3.8 1.0 31.3 By Arena G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS at Air Canada 1 40.0 8.0-16.0 50.000 4.0-7.0 .571 11.0-11.0 100.000 1.00 0.00 4.0 1.0 1.0 3.0 4.0 3.0 31.0 at Amer. Airlines 2 33.5 5.5-15.0 36.667 2.5-6.5 .385 8.5-9.0 94.444 0.50 0.50 1.5 2.0 0.5 3.0 3.5 0.5 22.0 at ARCO Arena 1 33.0 6.0-15.0 40.000 3.0-6.0 .500 7.0-7.0 100.000 0.00 0.00 4.0 1.0 0.0 2.0 2.0 4.0 22.0 at ORACLE Arena 2 33.5 6.0-14.0 42.857 2.0-4.0 .500 15.0-15.0 100.000 1.00 0.50 1.5 2.0 1.5 1.0 2.5 3.5 29.0 at Bradley Ctr 1 29.0 5.0-13.0 38.462 1.0-4.0 .250 12.0-13.0 92.308 0.00 0.00 0.0 4.0 1.0 2.0 3.0 1.0 23.0 at Charlotte Col. 1 31.0 6.0-17.0 35.294 3.0-8.0 .375 1.0-2.0 50.000 0.00 0.00 1.0 2.0 0.0 3.0 3.0 2.0 16.0 at Conseco Fldhse 1 33.0 6.0-14.0 42.857 1.0-6.0 .167 7.0-7.0 100.000 1.00 0.00 3.0 2.0 0.0 5.0 5.0 1.0 20.0 at EnergySolutions 1 33.0 6.0-13.0 46.154 3.0-6.0 .500 7.0-7.0 100.000 1.00 1.00 2.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 3.0 22.0 at Mad. Sq. Grdn 1 42.0 8.0-18.0 44.444 3.0-7.0 .429 9.0-11.0 81.818 1.00 0.00 4.0 3.0 0.0 5.0 5.0 4.0 28.0 at Verizon Ctr 1 37.0 8.0-18.0 44.444 2.0-7.0 .286 13.0-15.0 86.667 1.00 0.00 3.0 2.0 0.0 7.0 7.0 6.0 31.0 at Pepsi Center 1 25.0 3.0-15.0 20.000 1.0-6.0 .167 1.0-1.0 100.000 0.00 0.00 3.0 1.0 1.0 1.0 2.0 2.0 8.0 at Philips Arena 1 20.0 2.0-7.0 28.571 1.0-4.0 .250 5.0-5.0 100.000 0.00 0.00 2.0 1.0 0.0 3.0 3.0 0.0 10.0 at Rose Garden 1 24.0 6.0-17.0 35.294 0.0-4.0 .000 3.0-3.0 100.000 3.00 0.00 1.0 3.0 3.0 3.0 6.0 4.0 15.0 at AT&T Center 2 23.0 5.5-11.5 47.826 2.5-6.0 .417 3.5-4.0 87.500 0.50 0.00 3.0 2.5 0.0 3.0 3.0 1.5 17.0 at Staples Center 3 32.3 8.0-17.0 47.059 3.3-7.7 .435 8.7-9.7 89.655 1.00 0.67 3.0 3.3 0.3 3.3 3.7 3.3 28.0 at Target Center 1 35.0 9.0-18.0 50.000 3.0-6.0 .500 13.0-18.0 72.222 3.00 0.00 4.0 1.0 0.0 1.0 1.0 4.0 34.0 at United Center 1 28.0 5.0-10.0 50.000 1.0-3.0 .333 3.0-3.0 100.000 2.00 0.00 3.0 1.0 0.0 2.0 2.0 4.0 14.0 G MIN FGM-FGA FG% 3PM-3PA 3P% FTM-FTA FT% STL BLK TO PF OFF DEF TOT AST PTS Total 50 31.4 6.7-15.1 44.122 2.2-5.5 .405 7.7-8.7 88.710 0.90 0.18 2.2 2.1 0.3 2.7 3.0 2.3 23.3 http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/players/splits?playerId=2394 and its funny how people keep bringing quitting up? Why do you think Kevin Martin was traded? he couldn't handle sharing shots with tyreke evans.
take a stats class before posting them in such an illiterate manner. You have to analyze it in terms of the context. Sample size is a lot more crucial in your rudimentary comparison. Theres a big difference between watching the game, and going to NBA.com's play by play analysis.
When you call a player a chucker, or throw any other labels out its pretty clear that player didn't just earn that title in the matter of half a season or so. You look beyond what you have been exposed to and kevin martin has been a chucker since his sac days. Sac understood the direction they were headed in with him amidst the ppg illusion and made the right decision after watching him for many years.
Leaving the court WITHOUT TELLING COACH. Very few exceptions for this. A lot of places consider leaving work without telling boss a no call no show and could result in termination.
What is your definition of "chucker"? And can you name a few players that qualify as chuckers besides Kevin Martin, by your definition?
i hope he learns from this and takes the proper measures to prevent the situation from further escalating .
Yeah right. We blame Kevin Martin for not taking more shots, because he shoots so well and score efficiently and here you are blaming him for opposite reason. Let me ask you this: How many times do you see him holding the ball and taking a shot? NOT MANY. He shoots when people create shots for him and he makes it efficiently. He never demands ball. I will actually like him to keep ball more. Watch Kobe's game before you say he does not share the ball, please!
Posting that giant wall of stats is pointless. What am I supposed to see? And for that matter, have you been checking how Landry is doing? He's also having problems because Evans won't ever give up the ball. If both Martin and Landry are having this problem with Evans, I wonder who could be to blame? Evans is a poor man's Francis in the end, it's hardly surprising that one could have difficulties playing with him.
A player that has the stats oriented mentality dimension to his game that comes clearly into play as he dribbles the ball down the court, and often takes shots that disrupt the flow of the offense or even when he could have passed it on to someone else that had a higher % shot available. When kevin martin touches the ball, how often does it end it right there? as of late brooks as been doing the same, but my argument extends beyond this season when it comes to him, as his play off the bench has clearly not been indicative of his true play. Martin however has been carrying this on since his sac days.
the second you try to create some sort of kobe analogy in order to augment martin nothing more needs to be said.
OK. The difference between Martin and most other players that are often given the label "chucker" is that Martin does not consume a lot of possessions, and in the possessions in which he gets the ball he does not use up a lot of shot clock holding on to the ball or dribbling it. Martin is also very good at drawing fouls (in a cheap way, typically). So he turns out to be a very efficient offensive player and he generally gets his shots in the flow of the offense.
And thats ok with me. You being entitled to your own opinion is something i don't have a problem with. I disagree, but I'm sure both of us root for the same team which is why I try offering reason of my own instead of making personal attacks.
Deckard, I figured there would be quite a few disagreements with that sentence, but I stand by it. Let me try to explain: Aaron Brooks, Kevin Martin, Luis Scola -- of those three, at their best, only Aaron Brooks is unstoppable in 1-on-1 situations. I like Kevin Martin and he's been growing on me -- I was one of his biggest critics to start the year. But his game is heavily dependent on the referee's whistle. When the game's on the line, how often have they put the ball in Kevin Martin's hands and gotten out of the way? Not very often. Just look at last night -- the ball is usually in Lowry's hands to go off a pick-and-roll to close quarters (which is dumb, Rick). I mean, even Kevin Martin's GW bucket didn't come off an isolation where he won us the game. It came off him curling around a screen for an easy layup. Smart play, of course -- but not something you're going to get away with running at the end of games very often. When the game is on the line, you can put the ball in Aaron Brooks' hands. He's capable of getting off his own shot anytime he wants AND he's also a solid passer off the penetration. Look no further than Luis Scola's game-tying basket against the Lakers -- beautiful find from Brooks. Brooks' has shown the ability to raise his game (2009 Playoffs) and perform on the big stage. He's also shown the ability to lead a talent-strapped team to a record above .500 in a conference where the EIGHTH seed won 50 games. Brooks is our most talented offensive player because nobody can stop him from scoring when he's on. He's not dependent on outside influences (whistles) and can get off his own shot anytime he wants.
I just want you to see what does it mean "to not share ball" Martin plays more like Allen. Wesley Matthews kind of plays same way. They don't hold ball for long, which means sharing is not their responsibility. He gets good looks and he shoots and makes. When he misses, he usually attack and go to free throw line. I don't see anything wrong in his game except him not demanding ball at the closing moments.
Kevin Martin, as efficient as he is numbers-wise, really frustrates me sometimes. There was a play late in the 4th quarter or OT which is a perfect example. He used his quick first step to get his shoulder past his defender on the left baseline. Instead of being aggressive and driving all the way to the hoop, he stops and takes a pull-up jumper (probably hoping to draw a touch foul or something). Those kind of plays might fly early in the game, but refs aren't going to give him that call in a key possession late. Martin is soft, no way around it. Maybe he's being smart, given how injury-prone he is. But late in games, I'd rather have a guy who's looking to draw contact by driving into defenses, rather than looking to draw touch fouls on the perimeter.
Let me make clear what i agree on so we don't get confused. Martin is great at getting to the line, and is only rivaled by durant in this cat. He also moves well / around screens to get a shot at times although not close to the point of allen or hamilton. My problem with him is that he changes the theme of the game too much in a negative manner when when he touches the ball and it ends right there without the extra pass that change the mode of attack and allow for a dynamic and multi-punch offense.
