what great player has ever been hampered by a "system"?

I don't understand how this system can be blamed for Steve's struggles. Francis has gotten more wide open shots this season from this system than he has ever gotten in any other season in his entire career. He’s just not making any of them. How can you be considered a premier scorer in this league if you cannot consistently make wide open shots?

 

Dallas added a few new players. We haven't beaten them in over 2 years. We were only 2 games behind them last week. What's your point?

The Atlanta game was example enough. A good team wouldn't have let it get to that point.

I don't care who Portland beat. They are on a 5 game winning streak. Something we have yet to do. They have been in the playoffs for like 20 years in a row. Do not take them for granted.

Memphis will continue to climb. We were ahead of them last week. They have won 9 of 10 games. Something we have yet to do.

Nuggets may fall out of the bracketjust like us if they/we are not careful.

Utah is only 4 games out of the bracket. Amazing isn't it? Completely revamped team and they are only 4 games out.

 

Great players, no matter what system, find a way to be great.
Average players, no matter what system, are still average.

"Systems" CAN BE customized to a particular player, though. But that's more about extenuating and fine-tuning that players skills.

 

Great thread verse. Why didn't you start it last year? I was saying this all last year.

 

You're assuming what you are trying to prove. If someone gives you a countervailing example, you can just say he obviously wasn't a great player because he was hampered by a system. What's the purpose of that exercise?

 

On the money, and the rest of your post was excellet too.

 

This could only be the case if a player played for the same coach his entire career, right?

 

Van Gundy's offense is one that has a very low margin of error, which makes every basket, every posession so important. Van Gundy should open up the game more and allow the Gaurds to run the floor as they did in Rudy's system. i think if Van Gundy can find a combination of his tight, hard defeensive style and a more open, running/fastbreak game then the team will be awesome. No team in the league has great offense and defense. The closest would be the Timberwolves or maybe Sacremento. But Jeff needs to change his style, and the fact that Francis is not a point gaurd is a major problem. I say spend some money on a Steve Nash or if not work out a deal with Snow, maybe Iverson in the mixor BRent Barry.

 

SF is not a great player. He's just gifted athletically, and that's about it.

 

Someone mentioned Michael Jordan with Doug Collins. Shaq with Kurt Rambis and Del Harris also come to mind.

 

MJ was getting 18 PPG and scoring 26 in games at age 40. Shaq was ~ 23/11 under Rambis and Harris. Your point is...?

 

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It's called lunch.


And you didn't refute my point. I'll go with Scottie Pippen actually saying the system wasn't good for him before I go with your point.

Another player who didn't really thrive till he found the right system was Chris Webber.

Lastly, notice one other thing about the players you listed, those systems were all built around them. Do you not agree that Francis put up really good numbers when he was the focus of the offense?

 

I guess you forgot Scottie Pippen was a part of 6 championships. I'm floored.

 

I'll take the start of MJ...

This is assuming that you expect that Jordan would have achieved "greatness" within his first 5 years in the league. As far as statistically. Well, no system has ever hampered Jordan's ability to be productive and efficient.

Same with Shaq. True, greatness wasn't achieved in the first few years in LA. But his production and efficiency was still there no matter what team he was with.

 

Did you forget who he played with? Ray Allen had no Michael Jordan in his prime on his team.

 

Pippen could have flourished with many teams if had not gone to Chicago.

Would he have been the leader of that team? No. Scottie Pippen is not the kind of player that you build a team around. Not a leader.

I think the issue is whether or not we should deem Francis just a good player or a great player. In fact, I think that Pippen was a better all-around player than Francis.

Check his stats and record in 94 (no Jordan).

 

Do you even know what Clutch is referring to? Monday I was arguing that besides that one season, which I didn't discount, Ray Allen hasn't been any more successful than Steve Francis. See you can't say the same thing about Pippen, because he has six rings.