What Explains the Images of Destruction from Lebanon.

In all fairness, there's a new museum in D.C. in memory of the Native Americans. I totally agree with your point though, just pointing that out...

 

Are you just guessing about all of this? You really have compared the rights of Tibetans with Arab Israelis? Maybe you can share the specifics?

And I was asking a serious question. I know a Buddhist here who pays the way for 2 Tibetan girls to attend school because they are not permitted to. Obfuscate all you want, won't change the truth.

I'm curious also about the Han Chinese. You indicated that they are even more prejudiced against than the Tibetans, maybe you can elaborate?

 

It certainly seems like China makes a distinction between ethnic Tibetans and ethnic Chinese, does it not?

 

Didn't know that, thanks for the info. Could you please direct me to their website? I am wondering whether it's a government initiative intended to remind Americans of the crimes committed against the Natives (alas the various museums/sites in Germany dedicated to the cause) or something entirely different.

 

I'm no know-all man. However, I know that for a fact.

Maybe you met a con man ? I don't understand what do you mean by "not permitted to" then "pays the way"? I'm sure there are children who don't have access to school due to economic reasons all over Western Chinese provinces. Or you mean there isn't enough schools in Tibet? THat's what the "hope project" is for.

In fact, Tibatans, as ethnic minority enjoy special treatment compared to han Chinese in some education accessiblity, such as lower score standard in college entry test. Maybe that's what you mean by "It certainly seems like China makes a distinction between ethnic Tibetans and ethnic Chinese"?

To not further detail this thread, I suggest you to search the old Tibet thread, I'm sure you can get a lot more specifics simply by reading those.

 

I am sure there are Chinese who do believe in PRC's wholesale propaganda and also display stereotypes against Chinese minorities, but I don't believe I have seen one here in D&D. If you make these allegations, you need to provide proof to support them. On the other hand, your own blind faith in Dalai Lama and TI groups says a lot about your lack of objectivity and critical thinking.

On the subject of genocide, it's more of a myth and exaggeration than truth. There are researches done by independent scholars on this matter, who tend to agree more with PRC's claims than the those of Dalai Lama supporters'. It's frankly acknowledged that there are atrocities commited by PLA and CCP members in Tibet during and after the suppressing of DL's uprising. But individual atrocities don't amount to genocide, which is intentional and systematic ethnic cleansing. We say American troops committed atrocities in Iraq. Can you honestly say there is a genocide going on? Not even close. What about Bosnia and WWII Germany? Well, those are supported by verifiable facts.

Dalai Lama supporters, after they were forced to fled from Tibet, gave ridicously wild numbers that no sane people would believe and they themselves had to revise downward numerous times. PRC had its share of underestimation, but nowhere nearly as close to those extraordinary shifts done by the DL groups. The concensus nowadays is somewhere in between, but much closer to the PRC estimates. Killings are killings, which are bad, regrettable, and should have been avoid as much as possible even if there were armed conflicts. This has been my position all along and I believe it's also representive of those Chinese posters who have participated in various Tibet debates. I don't see anyone of us support killing of Tibetans. Like I said, you better come up with evidence if you say so, because that's serious. What you also should do is to think for yourself if you should accept the words of TI groups without any skepticism at all, let alone critical thinking. Frankly I do not sense you've done that. There are research papers conducted by population statisticians on the myth of Tibetan genocide. You should check them out if you are so concerned about Tibetan cause. These researches are based on actual census data, not wild imagination nor sensationalism.

On the Chinese being defensive part, you guys all seem to forget the fact that Western media anti-China bias has been persistent for decades, even in this information age. Unfortunately these are the only media guys like you access to. There are a couple of touchy/controversial issues with regard to China, especially PRC. They are being used as cliches whenever China is mentioned. It's like me talking about American Caucasians slaughtering Native Americans every time U.S. is mentioned. I do want to make a distinguish here that as far as relation goes, Native Americans to Caucasian Americans is not the same as Tibetan Chinese to Han Chinese. I think people, even many Chinese posters here, tend to get sucked into that comparison, which is flawed. I stated why this is so in the Another Tibet Thread started by Sishir Chang earlier this year.

If you want to make a topic about China, please do so and we Chinese posters will make our best effort to present our views. Throwing in one-liners habitually in threads that have nothing to do with China doesn't help discussion. It is also useful that you do a little research from both sides on your own.

Enough for my rant and derailing. I think the current crisis is in Middle East, which is this thread all about.

 

Yes, we have lots of buddhist con men 'round here.

Fair enough, I can request the details about why they cannot attend schoool w/o o/s funding.

 

I didn't know Dalai Lama lives in Lebanon. Damn I need an update on current affairs.

 

Seriously - where ya been?

I just can't understand how a border raid can turn into a war and we can stand behind a country when the ENTIRE world is just appalled at what they are doing. It's too much.

 

There's a big difference between what happened to the Native Americans and what the Nazis did. First off, most Native Americans where wiped out by disease that colonists brought over. Secondly, colonists were after land.

Hitler just wanted to exterminate the Jews like roaches. Let's not compare the two.

 

Your God King remarks are just that.



Tigermission, here is the link:
http://www.nmai.si.edu/subpage.cfm?subpage=exhibitions&second=dc

 

So you don't consider Nazi plans for world conquest to be "going after land"?

 

It was systematic ethnic cleansing. The difference between the two is that the Holocaust was carried out in a relatively short period of time, while the extermination of the Natives was carried out over a very long period of time. Different methods were used, but that doesn't make it any less 'credible'.

 

Of course you have people who didn't just spread disease by accident. The tribes were given infested blankets and other things on purpose. Furthermore you have people like Ben Franklin writing suggesting releasing attack dogs on villages to wipe out the entire population including women and children.

Because the colonists used disease to kill them doesn't mean they were innocent.

 

Thanks for the link. I knew about the Smithsonian NMAI, which is dedicated to 'preserving' Native American culture, it is not a holocaust-type museum that highlights the injustices carried out against the Natives.

Again, there is no real attempt to 'own up' to the past, which was my contention.

 

It's so laughable that one would ask a question like that. Ignorance is not a sin, everyone has it at some point. But if one's proud of his/her ignorance, and use his/her own narrow view and uninformed bias constantly as facts, that's pretty arrogant and dumb. You don't know Chinese at all. Generally, in Asia, the so-called "face" is more important than land, power, and wealth, thanks to the "bad influence" of Chinese culture. In the old days, even talking about money is evil enough. In Tang Dynasty, all foreigners were getting free accommodations. Japanese were invited to learn Chinese culture with all the support they could get. As long as Chinese could save face, spending some money was never a problem. It's not just a Han Chinese thing. Man Chinese did the same thing so many times in Qing Dynasty. The Commies were no different, they supported Albania, Vietnam, Korean, without asking for anything. That fake "Center of the land" mentality is deep in the root.

People on this board or in US generally, said again and again that N. K.'s government is Chinese's puppet. Not sure whether you have any idea about it. Chinese in general don't like Northern Koreans, because they were so unappreciative. Lots of Chinese died in Korean War, without them, there would be no N.K. at all. Do you know how N.K express its appreciation? There was no mentioning of "Chinese Volunteer Army" at all in museums or in schoolbooks. It was all about Kim. They leveled the tombs of those dead Chinese soldiers, including Mao's elderest son. Puppet government? Yeah right. Logic is a biatch.

Traditionally, Chinese emperors or central governments, they always oppressed Han Chinese, but treated foreigners very well, even today. I am against those special treatments, and I think there is a lot to learn from US government in that aspect, to treat your own people the best. If you have ever been to China, you wouldn't ask those silly questions.

Can Tibetan children go to school? YES! Do they get same right as Han Chinese? NO! They get more. Tuition fees are much cheaper, financial support is far greater. Tibet never produces anything, they are at the receiving end all the time. Their population ballooned in the past few decades. Their average life-span was 30 under Lamas, but almost doubled now.

When I went to university in China, there was a little bit more than $2 USD for each Han Chinese student each month from the government. All the other Chinese get $4 USD, including Tibetans. That's called special policies for all those minorities.

If you really have even just slightest interest, you can easily find information online, or even just on this very board. There was a length thread where Sishir, Wnes, and couple of other knowledgeable posters contributed with their views and supporting materials. You can get yourself educated. However, if you intend to throw out those silly one-liners, to piss someone off, or derail current discussion. I suggested you not to, because it only weakens your argument.

 

Perhaps on a large scale there isn't. But I know that the Christian Church has admitted it was wrong its treatments of the Indians and actually started programs to teach traditional tribal languages to young Native American Children.

 

Yup.

Museum comes under fire from AIM
by Sam Lewin

While applauding the idea behind the National Museum of the American Indian, the American Indian Movement says there is not enough information about abuses inflicted by the US government.

"I visited the museum on Tuesday and there wasn't much and there is so much to be told," AIM National Executive Director Clyde H. Bellecourt told the Native American Times. "They should have a wall to speak about the holocaust of the tribes who disappeared. They don't say who was responsible for it. Our history is not being told."

AIM is calling for the museum to be renamed the National Holocaust Museum of the American Indian.

"It is estimated that as many as 15 million Native peoples in America alone fell victim to the American holocaust since the pilgrims landed on Plymouth Rock. They were victims of biological warfare by way of smallpox infected blankets from Valley Forge, and distributed to the Native people by Lord Jeffrey Amherst and George Washington, and by military aggression, force, violence, and terrorism across the breadth of our sacred lands," AIM said in a statement. "While the Museum displays the beautiful culture of Native Peoples, it must also serve as an institution of education about America's holocaust on the American Indian."

Bellecourt, Ojibwa, also takes issue with another aspect of the museum, saying that the history of rich tribes is featured more prominently compared to poorer ones.

"Tribes that don't have much money don't have a display. My tribe doesn't have that much money so we get virtually nothing in the museum," he said.

Those negative comments may seem jarring to many Native Americans who regard the museum to be a crowning achievement. Bellecourt counters that AIM, with its decades-long history of social activism, is just doing what it set out to do: raise awareness.

"We are continuing to do the work that no one else will do," he said.

http://www.theava.com/04/0929-indianmuseum.html

 

Are they educated in their native language?

 

To your surprise, yes. They get to learn both Mandarin and Tibetan. But Mandarin is the official language, if you are ok with it.