TheHorn that was not your point at all. You said very clearly that Moochie would run the offense and Francis would come around picks. That is Indiana's offense, and that offense most certainly does not place the PG on the weakside. You said Moochie would be strongside and Francis would run around picks on the weakside. you are confused by your own logic. If Francis can run the Triangle in Kobe or Jordan's spot, Mobley becomes the far superior weakside option to Moochie, it isn't even debatable. Besides, Mobley IS on the weakside when Francis dominates the ball already. You are a confused person. Oh, and btw: Pippen and Jordan most definitely combined for 40 shots and Pippen was the quintessential point Forward....so, what's your point. That offense was dominated by two perimeter players...one strongside and one weakside. The point that is lost on you is that if Francis can learn to run a better PnR, then he doesn't really have to learn much else. The rest is up to the rest of the team to learn.
<blockquote><hr>Originally posted by TheHorns You will call Pierce a 2, and call Stackhouse & Peja a 3????? Of all the ones I considered, Pierce played 3 more than any.<hr></blockquote> Peja does not play shooting guard. you are confused.
OK, since you were counting swingmen, I decided that I like pierce better as a guard. He is like 6-6, 6-7, and shorter than Stojank, Stack, Carter You don't and the celts have been doing less of it as his career continues. Whatever, he is better than Mobley. And no, I would not trade him for locker room cancers Iverson or Stackhouse. And neither would most NBA gms. Do you think Rip Hamilton is better than Cat? Well, they traded stack for him. Iverson? Iverson is probably the single most untradeable player in basketball at this point, so go ahead and call me a liar about my own opinion if you want. Sure, Carters was a true superstar, and if he comes back this year I would defintley take him over cat, but the last time I saw him he was on the Compaq center bench with what he described as chronic knee injuries at the ripe old age of 25. So no, sorry, not until he comes back. Finley? How is he that much better a defender? Just because of cat's undeserved rep as a bad defender? Hell, ,he certainly isn't a good defender against mobely. Wally? A 245 pound spot up sg who scores 18-19 a game . Yeah, I guess his 3 assists versus Cat's 2.5 apg make him unselfish and better because he is unable to create his own shot. Peja- yes he has more size. So does Shaquille O Neal. And neither of them are shooting guards.
Too many replys and issues being bouced around, so let's try to bottom line this. If anyone disagrees, then please tell me why I should have hope (no "In Rudy We Trust", "its still early" or "this team is still young" BS). The team as it stands with its players, coaching, stategy and mentality (barring any changes) will not : "contend for championships" "contend for a championship" "be the greatest team ever assembled" Furthermore, they are not very fun to watch. What does that all equate to?? Many more discussions in this forum like this one for a long time to come!
TheHorn, the bottomline is that you are repeating yourself in multiple threads and Nero tried to get a little more focused discussion going on. Now you want to run away by saying "we can't win the title, so I will keep repeating myself all year." drivel drivel heave! Saying we can't win the title is not a critical discussion or even an interesting one. Such post ups do not make the game better. Your post attempts are a lot like how you describe Steve Francis and Rudy ball. You are repeating yourself, and in the process dominating threads with arguments that don't win...like here. Do you mind picking your moments, passing on threads sometimes, sharing the BBS, and stop dominating threads with drivel, drivel make us heave point attempts.
If there is a topic you feel I am avoiding, I am more than happy to continue the discussion with you. But who is contradicting themselves now? Followed by Like there is room for anyone who has made in excess of 11,000 posts to tell anyone they are attempting to "dominate threads"!!! That's like Francis telling Mobley not to touch the ball bc he wants to handle it himself. It’s a free forum in which people are free to express their thoughts & opinions in good taste. But, sure I will do that just for you. I sure would not like to ruin any fun for you as it is quite apparent this is your life. Over 11,000 posts to a single BBS. You are a star. FOOTNOTE: learn to read as good as you type and you will see that I did not say "WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS" the phrase was "CONTEND" huge difference.
TheHorn, I was just trying to add humor with a BBall BBS analogy. Hey, I get more assists than you do. point is, what does your Bench Mobley, Make Francis a SG, and for added measure, Rudy sucks, constant drivel have to do specifically with this thread? How many times are you going to make that point this year? In how many threads? I wasn't going to join in on ridding TheHorn until Nero did....
If you have read my previous threads, you will see I often defend Cat and think that he is a valuable piece to this or any team. I just see a SG in SF that could flourish. They are good pals and so on, but they do not make a good tandem. Let's put all of the previous threads and posts aside and you tell me this. Withthe team as it is comprised now, do you not think: 1) that the team would be a deeper more dangerous team w/ SF starting @ Sg and having a scorer like Cat to come off the bench? 2) Cat is capable of playing the Sam Cassell roll of coming off the bench but still gettin a good bulk of minutes? 3) the team as it stands must make some changes prior to being able to advance in the playoffs? What I do not like about Cat & SF in at the same time is that defenders are not forced to be active as they both do relatively the same thing (either stand around or dribble too much). They try to go with the 3 guards and to be honest the only mismatch that creates is an unfavorable one for the Rockets... Not enough size, not enough D and low percentage shots.
You seem pretty sure of yourself. Maybe you should inform the Celtics official website: 34 Paul Pierce G-F 6-6 230 10/13/77 Kansas '99 as well as the Kings official website: 16 Predrag Stojakovic F 6-10 229 6/09/77 Yugoslavia 4 As to why you are right and they are wrong.
BINGO!!! Thanks codell for briefly expressing a sentiment I've had for a long time. The majority of posters here (myself excluded) hated Dan Langhi and Walt Williams. Both are shooting 50% from the field for their respective teams so far this season. If you're interested, watch how much better Eddie Griffin shoots when his entry pass comes from Hawkins or Ming
Nero, I like your post. Ro Blackman was one of my favorite players too. He's not just a great shooter, but a classy guy too. In fact, he was the only Mav player I cared about in the 80's. I also wonder how it would be if we use Cat as a CATch and shoot kind of player. I think he is absolutely capable of being very effective that way. They just need to design those double or triple pick kind of plays for him, just like what the Mavs did for Ro or the Pacers do for Reggie.
I remember quite fondly that Akeem/Hakeem was listed as being 7 foot on the Rockets website. Hell Pierce has been a favorite of mine from back in college while along side Reaf. I thoght that year (when he was slipping in the draft) the Rockets should have packaged the picks to move up 4-5 slots to get him. Before the Vin Baker trade Pierce was used almost exclusively as a 3. While you are at it, you should have looked to see what position Stackhouse played... hmmm I guess it was a slight oversight on your behalf, but I am happy to share the information from the Wizards official website: Jerry Stackhouse G-F Height: 6-6 11/05/74 218 lbs. North Caroina
. Damn straight, not many 2's better than cat. its just he dont get as much hype with all the hype Yao, steve, Rice, and Grif, , and MO T's POT get
TheHorns, I understand your opinion of Mobley and Francis. I really do. However, it's too easy to dismiss what Rudy is slowly but surely trying to do with this team, based merely upon this team's lack of success over the last couple of seasons. One of the biggest mistakes a coach can make is trying to fit a bunch of round pegs into the square holes of his preconceived idea of an offense. The Rockets of the early 90's couldn't any more run the offense of the Bulls during that same span any more than the Bulls could have run our Olajuwon-based offense. You *have* to fit your plan to your personnel. Rudy's real problem the last couple of years has been that he simply has not been afforded the opportunity to work with his personnel long enough to establish a coherent plan, and has had to rely on a system of 'talent-over-scheme', which obviously has not worked terribly well. There just wasn't much choice. But now, seemingly all in one fell swoop, the team is not only mostly healed, but we have even added 3 signifigant pieces (4 if you count Mickeal) to a group that was already good (and improving) before the injuries. Now all that remains is for the team to morph back into a unit that uses an actual offense with actual *plays* instead of relying on the 'mad skillz' of certain players. As much as we wish it could happen overnight, it just can't. But what you are saying, as near as I can tell, is that a leopard can't change his spots, and we should make drastic changes, instead of molding these still-young players into the roles they should have been filling all along. So Francis scores a lot, takes a lot of shots. So? Why try to change a guy who has the legitimate potential to lead the league in scoring? You can see brief flashes of the offense trying to do what Rudy has been putting into place, and part of that plan is to take advantage of the players at his disposal. So what that SF plays the point? If he can put the ball in the hole better than anyone else on the team, then that's an opportunity to take advantage of a mismatch. Can't this team compete using a system where one particular player is not necessarily responsible for creating shots for other players, but instead letting the offense itself create the shots for the best players? I am convinced that this is the sort of system Rudy is trying to establish. Again, why take a bunch of round pegs and try to stuff them into the square holes of an offense that doesn't suit them as well? Maybe SF and Cat will embrace the new style of offense as well as we want them to. Maybe they won't. But remember this team is also faced with having to live up to the 'playoffs-this-year-or- else' commitment, so winning is the highest priority of all right now. It will take some time - I am guessing by halfway through the season, we will start seeing this team hit its stride in the new system. But until then, just take a valium and have some patience. Besides, this thread was supposed to be about trying to determine a trend of assists-per-made-shot for Mobley, not the same-old same-old complaints about the team not fitting into your vision of what you think it should be. We have who we have, our team is who they are. If you want Andre Miller and Jason Kidd, then go watch their teams, and let this one alone. chow
Don't be such a jackass. I said they were all swingmen types, but that many of the guys you cited played primarily forward. You made a point of trying to call me out by posting repeatedly that Pierce was "never" a guard and that Peja was one. You were, and still are wrong. All of this stupid bickering only proves my point that NBA positional labels like PG, SG, SF, etc. are only as good as the player behind them. Just because you decide to call francis the point guard doesn't mean he always has to pass. Just like calling Carter a guard doesn't mean he can't post up a small forward every now and then. By the way, I still have yet to hear ANY rational explanation as to how putting Norris on the floor for extended minutes in lieu of Mobley makes the Rockets better. Your case for benching Mobley for Norris thus far consists of the fact that Stackhouse is listed as a "G-F" on the Wizards website. Hooray for you.
We can only hope its successful. I would like to be watching basketball with a vested intrest in May. There is very good talent on this team however, over the last few years, it has not been fun to watch (winning or losing). If they are able to win with this mix, and make it interesting throughout the entire season, maybe I (and many others) will find the team a little more enjoyable to watch. We will see how the pieces fall into place, but that still does not answer why they advertise the new offense that is not being run. Before anyone says "they have had people out" I want to say that the triangle may not be as effective without Kobe or Shaq, but the team still runs the offense. Players coming off the bech should be prepared to do the same thing the starters do (at a lower rate of efficiency. Injuries or not, they are not showing any signs of what they said they were going to do, and I truly think if they ran the offense that was described it would be effective. The way it was described was movement and picks. As it stands, SF has the ball all the time and there is not movement and picks are not very well executed (they seem to be just for freeing up the man with the ball). Sure it can not happen over night, but to get an offense in place should not take all year. I think Phil is a good coach who has never been challenged (talent wise). The one thing I can say for him though, is he came right in and got his players to play in his system. I don't know why, but I do not think Rudy is getting the respect (or has the confidence) of his players as they all seem to do their own thing. Its one or the other. Its Rudy's system or lack there of, or its the players not following/buying into it.
