There is no God and everybody has free will - except that there really isn't a whole lot of "free will" involved, since every decision we make is based on our experiences and our biological/neurological responses to these experiences. If there is a God, then he couldn't blame atheists for not making the free choice to believe in him since their brains weren't created capable of experiencing or accepting his existence based on the lack of evidence.
I am an atheist (or rather a Jewish atheist - it is not uncommon) but I find a lot of value in and a lot to identify with in many religious faiths, especially as expressed by Jesus and Buddha. I am decidedly not a fan of Yahweh, as I understand Him. I believe we have free will in life but, of course, no choice about death. As such, that free will is sometimes wonderful to me, a great relief and a great liberator, and sometimes utterly meaningless. As Elliott Smith sang: You can do what you want to, whenever you want to You can do what you want to, there's no one to stop you You can do what you want to, whenever you want to Do what you want to, whenever you want to Though it doesn't mean a thing Big Nothing I honor faith though and I covet it too. I just do not feel the presence of any higher being and never have, hard as I've tried. Likewise I cannot even imagine a life after death. I envy those who can and do.
if god was comprehendable he wouldnt be worth worshipping.. We ABSOLUTELY have free will... However God is outside of the confinement of time.. so before you were born he knew all the choices you were going to make... thats where confusion sets in.. 1 corinthians 13: 4-7 talks about what Love is.. (patient, kind, not selfseeking, not boastful etc. etc.) later it says that god IS love.. having NO free will would mean god hand picks who goes to heaven and hell... which 1. isnt a characteristic of god, and 2. is not love.
and athiesim/science is just a way to feel like you have things figured out, and labeling things you cant really understand...
Without a doubt you are one of the best posters here, so much truth at the heart level... I believe God is close to you, I haven't met you but I would say you are familiar with suffering and you have empathy for others who suffer... Here is a song by Laura Story I really like, it is called Blessings: what if Your (God) blessings come through raindrops What if Your healing comes through tears? And what if a thousand sleepless nights Are what it takes to know You're near? And what if trials of this life Are Your mercies in disguise? When friends betray us, when darkness seems to win We know that pain reminds this heart That this is not our home What if my greatest disappointments Or the aching of this life Is the revealing of a greater thirst This world can't satisfy?
There's a sign I drive past whenever I go from Austin to Houston, which is often, and I simply don't get it. Here's the sign: GOD LOVES YOU PRAISE HIM (I'm agnostic, for those who don't know that salient fact) Now, what bugs me is that if God exists, and he loves me/you/whomever, then why do I have to praise him? If he's God, the supreme being, why does he need praise? Doesn't that seem a tad egotistical? It's a human failing, needing praise. When we do something for someone else, simply because it seems the right thing to do, should we expect praise? If it was a selfless act, as selfless as a human can allow himself to be, why would praise be expected? Why would the individual be disappointed if praise didn't follow the selfless act? If praise is expected, then it wasn't a selfless act. It's not that I wouldn't enjoy praise for something I did for someone else, but rather that if it's being described as "selfless," praise shouldn't enter the equation. I view love as a selfless act. In fact, my definition of love would have "selfless" way up there in the qualities I associate with love. If I pick up my child and hold him or her close, the love flows through me, it just does. Those of us here who are parents have experienced that. And if the child is old enough to speak (and I've experienced this with my two children, and picking either one up today would probably put me in a hospital), do I expect to be praised for expressing that emotion? For feeling it? Of course not. So why would God need to be praised? As the sign reads, praise is demanded. Why would God demand praise? I simply don't get the sentiment. Yet why do houses of worship, for any religion, exist? See my quandary? The sentiment expressed by the sign is the opposite of free will. Either God loves you, he doesn't, he's ambivalent, or he doesn't care, assuming he exists. Needing praise is a human emotion, and not one of our better ones. Associating that emotion with a demand from "God" is simply nonsensical to me. I hope that meant something in the context of the thread.
I actually go back and forth between calling myself an atheist and an agnostic. I feel like an atheist, but the only thing I can really know is that I know nothing. I don't think human brains are superior to or closer to that thing called truth than monkey brains or fish brains. I don't feel like I have things figured out. On the contrary, I know for a fact that I don't.
Thank you for the song, rhester. And for the kind words too. You are one of my favorite posters too, mostly because of your obviously great compassion and your clear belief that God is love. I can dig on that for sure. Now if we could just get together on the idea that homosexuality is neither sinful, deviant nor wrong, I expect we'd be nearly 100% in agreement.
Nice post, Deckard. I can't say whether or not there is a God. But I can say that if there is, and if He is prideful, spiteful, judgmental, or would deny eternal life and love to anyone, I would have to stand angrily against that God. And were I to meet such a God, knowing I would lose, I would take my best shot at kicking him in the balls on my way to eternal damnation.
I don't think even scientists believe they have things figured out. They truck in theories and each new age proves the last one wrong in some way or another. The scientist that believes the mysteries of life have been solved doesn't deserve the name.
The problem with that is it was created by people who knew way less about why the world is the way it is than is known today, yet struggle violently to argue that they had it right in the first place and refuse to change their views to accommodate growing human understanding. Wow. That sounds like the exact thing I'd say about religion. Feeling like you have things figured out, throwing labels around. I forgot, all you need is "faith."
Must spread reputation around before giving it to Mr Clutch again. This is probably one of the key things which took me from Islam closer to agnosticism. IMO God knows the choices we're going to make and we have free will. If we don't have free will (even partial) and there is a day of judgement, then that would make God a hypocrite.
True. Then there better be a party or a rave or something because there's going to be a LOT of people who already bought tickets.
