Offensive efficiency was better back then. Defensive efficiency was worse back then. Sure, you can't be as physical, but the same type of simple ISO ball and post ups don't work in todays NBA. Defenses are much smarter.
Your arguments don't make much sense - League Average eFG% '80s: .491 '90s: .488 '00s: .484 League Average PPG '80s: 109.3 '90s: 101.0 '00s: 96.9 % of Points from the Freethrow line '80s: 20.3 '90s: 19.8 '00s: 19.5
Lebron doesn't like physical games. How tf would he play better if he was allowed to play physical? He goes crying to the refs and the media that other teams are more physical..
5+ FMVPs 5+ MVPs 1 DPOY greater longevity than Jordan and he is definitely in the convo and definitely top 3 all time.
Locked it up doesnt mean it cant be opened. If the streak was broken, how much would it had meant to his name??
Lebron needs to stop flopping. How the hell does a physical monstrosity of a specimen like him pretends to be a 150 lb rag doll? Smh...
So you're telling me that despite the higher scoring and better shooting defenses were actually better? No. This is where the perception of some of those horribly plodding rockets-knicks-bulls-jazz finals distorts the reality. The reality is that the 89 pistons, archetype of tthat era's defensive juggernauts, posted a defensive efficiency ranking that wouldn't place in the top 5 today. Sorry but take poorer defensive efficiency and higher pace and that makes it EASIER to score, not harder
Yes, sometimes when people are in foul trouble, it happens. It is rare, and actually the smart play. Why would somebody like Lebron get in foul trouble? Did you watch what happened to Durant in last years finals? <iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/84NUj-_kxuk?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Watch this game and tell me they don't guard closer. Compare what Horry and Drexler do in the 95 championship (no lazyness allowed) to what the current players are doing in the playoffs. This doesn't really make much sense. Pace means that a select team gets more possessions per game, so a select player would proportionally get more possessions per game, meaning his averages would increase. Why would the individual player's stats not go up when there are more possessions to go around? I will just agree with what SamFisher and to refer back to that, instead of restating what he said and taking his credit.
you're right, that's the way to judge, and those numbers would get him top 3. Jordan was: 6 FMVP 5 MVP 1 DPOY to be the best ever he would have to at least tie that, with better per game averages, or more championships.
Sometimes is an exaggeration to say the least. I believe you are a Rockets fan. How many times this season did you hear Bill Worrell, Matt Bullard, and Clyde Drexler make fun of how much people don't play defense these days compared to when they played? I think on average they literally probably implied it about once or twice a game. All 88 games between the regular season and playoffs. It's the smart play in today's era because you get called for every little thing. Again being a Rockets fan just look at Jeremy Lin. How many times did he get 2 or 3 fouls a game for another player smacking him in the face, nose, or on top of his head? That's instant foul trouble and it means Lin has to allow people to score. Similar things happened with Beverly and Smith too. All season long. How often do our commentators get into Harden for not playing defense? Calvin Murphy gets onto Harden for it every other game. Likewise there were many times this season where one of our guys were allowed to score just because the opponent didn't want to get called for a silly foul. Back then you actually had to be more skilled or you simply were not going to score. Today you just have to be a good actor with some athleticism. I'm not going to go through the whole video but I will skim through it and point out some plays that would be fouls in today's game. 13:40- A three point foul in today's game allowing for a four point opportunity. Especially if the shooter is a superstar. 13:54- Loose ball foul in today's game. 14:30- Reach around foul called about ten times a game in today's game. 15:08- In today's game when a three point shooter is that open the opposing players generally will just stand there. Not nearly as often was that the case back then. 15:25- About three fouls could have been called that if we based that on today's rules. 16:20- About two or three fouls in today's game. 41:15- Called either a blocking foul or a charge 9 times out of 10 in today's game. 50:27- Loose ball foul in today's game. Look at how Shaq and Olujawon actually had to collide legitimately for a foul to be called. Not like Martin and Fisher if you ask me. 104:29- Back then you far more often had to score even when your arm was being pulled down by the biggest guy in the league. Nowadays all you have to do is purposely graze the defender's finger nail to get a foul called in your favor. Honestly I'm not seeing how this video doesn't just show exactly what I'm saying. The 90s had some ticky tack calls. It had some flops. However in neither case was it anywhere close to today's levels. Heck hand checking wasn't even enforced a lot more until half way through the 90s. That video just shows how much more physical it use to be, how much more players actually tried to play defense back then, and overall just how much harder it was to score. Because the difference in a team's entire possessions isn't enough to divide it up between it's roster and say hey this guy is obviously going to score way more points per game now than he use to. If you look at Lebron's stats per 36 minutes for his entire career and then look at where his teams have ranked in fast break points you'll see faster paces haven't really effected his average amount of points in a way that clearly shows there would be a huge difference if he played on a team with a faster pace. In fact he played on a few rosters that were about top 10 in fast break points. Those seasons his average points per 36 minutes were 19.1, 23.1, and 26.5. His median average points per 36 minutes in seasons where his teams ranked 14th (average) or worse in fast break points were 26 points per game.
@ VBG and SamFisher. What do average league stats really have to do with a player's individual stats and performance? Offensive and defensive efficiency are entirely relative to the specific rosters that played in those specific seasons with a specific level of rules and officiating. It's not like we can say a team that, today, has a good defensive efficiency could go back in time and duplicate that in the 90s or even better because the officiating is so much different. You say defenses are smarter. Do I want the players to be more skilled or smarter (better actors)? My point is look at the games from the 90s and then look at today. Far more effort was given in playing defense back then, it was much more physical, and there was much less acting.
In short my best answer to this thread is this: When Lebron James plays a high level of defense that was on par with the defenses other greats, including Jordan, had to play and still scores on the same level he does today if not higher AND dominates (I guess people call that winning rings and MVPs) while playing that level of talent and defense every season of his career. When he does all that I will gladly call Lebron James the greatest of all time. For now I will say that he is the best player of this era and probably will be the best player in a long time.
If Lebron played against 90s defenses with his current Heat team that played PnR defense like they did in the 90s he would absolutely destroy the team.
His shots would more often be blocked in the 90s and far more often contested. It'd be a lot more physical as well. I don't see how that's not a recipe for less points than what he's able to put up against today's defense (if you could really even call it defense lol).
Last until he's 40. Grant Hill can. LeBron's the most gifted athlete the NBA has ever seen, with a developed jump shot, he should easily have a much longer prime than MJ.
Uh, the numbers actually tell us whether there's any truth to the wistful back in the dayism gleaned from self-interested color commentators that serves as the basis of your theory. The numbers indicate that you're not entirely correct to assert that it's far easier to score now. Its nothing new of course. Pretty much every generation of hoopsters has sounded off at one point to indicate how kids today couldn't hang on some level or another. You can side with them and believe that the sport reached its zenith in the past but given the way most trends go they're probably dead wrong.
Never thought he would be but just 2 rings should do it. He's already the best 2 way player in NBA history. In about two seasons people are going to start saying with a pick in the draft...you choose lebron over the likes of Jordan, Magic, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem /
Lebron isn't even the best 2-way perimeter player in NBA history. You grossly underestimate the defensive impact that a big has.
