What? It's like I don't even know you anymore. Or I didn't know that in truth you really don't know how to know me.
I was just thinking of the hipster kids reading the thread, not us. Harryhausen's magic is lost on them.
Please show me where in the Bible it says that saying Jesus is not God is a sin. If some "Christian" told you this, please have them point this out to me. The Bible only says that there shall be no other God before me. Jesus claims that He is the Son of God. Jesus did not come to judge, but only to be the ultimate sacrifice for Man's sin. Man already could not keep the Law of Moses and therefore God brought Jesus to Earth. Why would God want to add more Sins for Man to break? They could not keep the rules they had. Ok, show me where in the Bible it says that "saying" Jesus did not die on the Cross is a sin? If some "Christian" told you this, please have them point this out to me. Muslims may not believe that Jesus died on the Cross, but does the Koran explain how He died? Also, most Historians have no disagreement about the fact that Jesus was crucified on a Cross. The only issue in question is whether or not He rose again on the third day. Unless any of them involves breaking the Ten Commandments, you should be good to go. First, Jesus says that when Judgment comes, there will be many that will say, "Hey, I'm a Christian and I went to Church and I professed you name and I did so many deeds in your Name." But Jesus responds, "Get thee away from me, for I never knew you." So, there is a difference in those that label themselves a Christian and those that truly are a Christian. God knows our hearts and we cannot fool Him when Judgment comes. Having provided this clarification, what the Bible says is that the Old Testament Contract with Man is ended with the birth of Jesus. No more blood sacrifices are required to atone for sin.[/QUOTE] I don't know much about Islam. Since there is a lot of similar history from the Old Testament of the Bible and Islam (i.e. Moses and all), when did blood sacrifices end and what was the reasoning for why they were ended? This is mostly a result of Catholicism--the major denomination of Christianity--and not Christianity as a whole. Catholics believe that, according to the Bible, the Pope has been given divine insight to add rules and regulations to augment what's written in the Bible. Protestants do not subscribe to this extra authority. The problem I have with this is that, although Peter himself was given certain powers, over the centuries, the Sin nature of Man has defiled the Church leaders. You cannot give any one Man too much power--for eventually Power corrupts. Over the centuries, Christians have seen this corruption that results from too much power in the hands of a Priests-- in such things as selling confessions. You see it now in the cover up of the sex abuse scandals in the Catholic Church. The only thing that a true Christians needs is the Bible. The Catholic Church did not allow commoners to read the Bible and everything was just interoperated to them by the Priests. If fact, the Catholic version of the Bible was kept in Latin until just recently. Although, this has recently changed, most Catholics do not feel they have to read the Bible and still rely on the Priests to interoperate Jesus Words to them. We know what can happen when we let other start to tell us what somebody else said. Christians believe, that when the Bible is read for oneself, the Holy Spirit will open our hearts and minds to the true meaning of the Words. Also, it was never the original intention to raise Mary to God status by the Catholic Church--however, that is what has resulted with all the repetitive Hail Mary's and such. The original intention was just to ask Mary to pray for us, like you would ask your own parents to pray for you. However, although there is nothing wrong with asking Mary to pray for a Christian, this is totally unnecessary and not addressed in the Bible. It implies that Christ's death on the Cross somehow was not enough. Also, nowhere in the Bible does anyone ask Mary to pray to God on their behalf. The fastest decline of membership is now in the Catholic Church and the fastest increase in memberships now in non-denominational Churches--which are just focusing on just the Bible. People just don't trust "religious" people anymore. All that is required to be a true Christian is to truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the Cross for our Sins. We only have to confess our sins to Him and except Him as our Lord and Savior. Boom, you are a true Christian and nothing else needs to be added for eternal salvation. Also, it is not the responsibly of Christians to Judge others or to convert other to Christianity, all that is asked of us is to explain the Love and purpose of Jesus to others. It is then up to the Holy Spirit to truly convert a person into Christianity. Too many Christians feel that have to convince others that their Faith is the only True Faith. Jesus never wanted Christians to be Lawyers arguing a Case in Court nor militants forcing Faith down peoples throats. Only the Holy Spirit, which enters a persons soul when they truly except Christ, can make a true Christian. So, most people that claim to be Christian are just pretenders--but as to who is exactly sincere or not will only be determined on Judgment Day.
pish posh, rubbish jabber, utter flimflam, and pure piffle, old boy.... I say I dare call shenanigans on this arrogantly assumptive post of yours... and all subsequent follow-ups after it... now, I demand you cease and desist from further tomfoolery... lest my cane find your backside... that goes for you as well, B-bob... I have my most observant eye on you two..... Spoiler o.Q
I don't know much about Islam. Since there is a lot of similar history from the Old Testament of the Bible and Islam (i.e. Moses and all), when did blood sacrifices end and what was the reasoning for why they were ended? No man can bear or change the burden of another in Islam. Human sacrifice to atone for sin.. is a sin. Animal sacrifice to atone for sin, is a sin. Animal "sacrifice" is done in Islam to feed the poor. 022.037 YUSUFALI: It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah: it is your piety that reaches Him: He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right. This is mostly a result of Catholicism--the major denomination of Christianity--and not Christianity as a whole. Catholics believe that, according to the Bible, the Pope has been given divine insight to add rules and regulations to augment what's written in the Bible. Protestants do not subscribe to this extra authority. The problem I have with this is that, although Peter himself was given certain powers, over the centuries, the Sin nature of Man has defiled the Church leaders. You cannot give any one Man too much power--for eventually Power corrupts. Over the centuries, Christians have seen this corruption that results from too much power in the hands of a Priests-- in such things as selling confessions. You see it now in the cover up of the sex abuse scandals in the Catholic Church. The only thing that a true Christians needs is the Bible. The Catholic Church did not allow commoners to read the Bible and everything was just interoperated to them by the Priests. If fact, the Catholic version of the Bible was kept in Latin until just recently. Although, this has recently changed, most Catholics do not feel they have to read the Bible and still rely on the Priests to interoperate Jesus Words to them. We know what can happen when we let other start to tell us what somebody else said. Christians believe, that when the Bible is read for oneself, the Holy Spirit will open our hearts and minds to the true meaning of the Words. Also, it was never the original intention to raise Mary to God status by the Catholic Church--however, that is what has resulted with all the repetitive Hail Mary's and such. The original intention was just to ask Mary to pray for us, like you would ask your own parents to pray for you. However, although there is nothing wrong with asking Mary to pray for a Christian, this is totally unnecessary and not addressed in the Bible. It implies that Christ's death on the Cross somehow was not enough. Also, nowhere in the Bible does anyone ask Mary to pray to God on their behalf. The fastest decline of membership is now in the Catholic Church and the fastest increase in memberships now in non-denominational Churches--which are just focusing on just the Bible. People just don't trust "religious" people anymore. All that is required to be a true Christian is to truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that He died on the Cross for our Sins. We only have to confess our sins to Him and except Him as our Lord and Savior. Boom, you are a true Christian and nothing else needs to be added for eternal salvation. Also, it is not the responsibly of Christians to Judge others or to convert other to Christianity, all that is asked of us is to explain the Love and purpose of Jesus to others. It is then up to the Holy Spirit to truly convert a person into Christianity. Too many Christians feel that have to convince others that their Faith is the only True Faith. What about these: Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. [/QUOTE] Frankly, I've heard interpretations of this that make far more sense from other Christians. I don't think God would give an advantage to anyone because they happen to be Christians - what are the chances a N Korean farmer discovers Christianity? If he commits one sin, why should he be judged differently than a Christian born a few kilometers away from the Vatican who was prompted to find in depth knowledge about Christianity simply due to chance and commits the exact same one sin? Unless you believe everyone's willingness and motivation to discover Christianity is pre-assigned by God, so everyone is born where they're supposed to be born (for my example). Confusing.
Yet the evidence from both the New Testament, and other historical sources state that Christ was crucified. EVIDENCE FROM THE BIBLE THAT JESUS WAS CRUCIFIED AND DIED JESUS PREDICTED HIS OWN CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH. Jesus was not afraid to die. In fact, He predicted His own death and resurrection Matthew 16:21 - From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests, and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life. Luke 18:31,32 - Jesus took the twelve aside and told them, 'We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled. He will be handed over to the Gentiles, they will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him, and kill him. On the third day he will rise again.' John 12:30-32 - This voice was for your benefit, not mine. Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself". He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die. JESUS WILLINGLY WENT TO THE CROSS Matthew 26:53 - "Do you not think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more that twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?" Matthew 26:39 - "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." John 10:18 - "No man takes it (his life) from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father". THE NEW TESTAMENT DESCRIBES JESUS' CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH. Matthew 27:32-50, (vs 35) - When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots. (vs 50) - And when Jesus had cried again with a loud voice he gave up his spirit. Luke 23:26-46, (vs 33) - When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals - one on his right, the other on his left. (vs 46) - Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit". When he had said this, he breathed his last. John 19:17-30 (vs 18) - Here they crucified him, and with him two others - one on each side, and Jesus in the middle. (vs 30) - When he had received the drink, Jesus said "It is finished.” With that he bowed his head and gave up his spirit. BIBLICAL WITNESSES TO JESUS' CRUCIFIXION AND DEATH Matthew 27:54-56 - When the centurion and those with him who were guarding Jesus saw the earthquake and all that had happened, they were terrified and exclaimed, "Surely he was the Son of God." Many women were there watching from a distance... among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons. John 19:26 - When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said to his mother, "Dear woman, here is your son", and to the disciple, "Here is your mother." THE TESTIMONY CONCERNING THE CRUCIFIXION AFTER HIS ASCENSION Peter speaking to the crowd at the Jewish Temple: Acts 2:23 - "This man was handed over to you by God's set purpose and foreknowledge and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross." Paul speaking: Acts 13:29 - When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in the tomb. OTHER HISTORICAL REFERENCES AS EVIDENCE Evidence from the JEWISH SOURCES: Talmud, b. Sanhedrin 43a: On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged [or crucified]. ... Since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover. The Amoa "Ulla" (Ulla was a disciple of Youchanan and lived in Palestine at the end of the third century) adds: "And do you suppose that for (Yeshu of Nazareth - Jesus) there was any right of appeal? He was a beguiler, and the Merciful One hath said: "Thou shalt not spare neither shalt thou conceal him." It is otherwise with Yeshu, for He was near to the civil authority. Note here that the writers of the Talmud took their job seriously. These men were Jews who did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah. They were not Christians but they documented Christ's crucifixion. EVIDENCE FROM ROMAN SOURCES: Cornelius Tacitus in his Annals, xv. 44: Christus ... was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontious Pilate. Lucian of Samosata: (Christ was) the man who was crucified in Palestine Note here that these men were professional historians. They researched their work before publishing it. They also documented Christ's crucifixion. Therefore, three types of witness all of whom are from the 1st or early 2nd century have been presented. "Zabh, used in the Koran (5:4) for Abraham's sacrifice of his son. Qurban, this word occurs three times in the Koran. In places (3:179; 5:30) it obviously means an offering or sacrifice; in the third passage (46:27) the meaning is obscure." Really? So when Abraham was asked by God/Allah to sacrifice Isaac to show his faith, God was sinning? Also, after God stopped Abraham to actually going through with the sacrifice, there was a Ram tangled in the bushes--placed their by God--as a substituent for Isaac. Was that a sin also? As I have said, it is asked of Christians to spread the "Good News" to all corners of the world--however, it is not our task to "convert" others to Christianity. There is no conflict between the quotes you provided and what I have said. Ok, let me clarify a some more about Judgment. Christ did not come to Judge anyone. Neither are Christians asked to judge anyone or any religion. We are simply asked to share the Gospel of Christ to others. It's the Holy Spirit that actually does the any conversions to Christianity. Any Christian that judges others are missing the point of being a Christian. Jesus came to complete the prophesies of the Old Testament about His birth and death on the Cross. Jesus tells us to get the log our of our own eyes, before we try to get the spec out of other peoples eyes. All will be judged by God when the time comes. Christian's believe that those that truly believe in Christ will have an "Easy Button" into Heaven. People confuse Jesus saying "There is no other way to the Father, but through me" to mean that we are to judge others as to whether they will go to Heaven or not. I know this seems contradictory, however, I will summarize with a parable from the Bible: There is a parable in the Bible that tells the story of vineyard owner that hired workers to pick grapes from his vineyard. He went early in the morning to the "laborer gathering yard" and agreed to pay 1 dollar for a full days work for all who where there at that time. However, this owner kept going back to the labor yard and hiring more workers every hour till the last hour before dusk. At the end of the day, all the workers collected the same 1 dollar. However, the guys that showed up in the morning started gripping about making the same money as the guys that showed up at the last hour. The owner responded by telling them that he had kept the contract he made with them--for 1 dollar, so they should not worry about the contract he has made with others that showed up at the end of the day. Since, he is the owner and he did not break his contract with the workers that arrived early, he has the right to make any contract he wants with others that showed up later. The point is that all who hear the Word of Christ will be Judged accordingly and those that have never heard his Word may be judged by a different standard--it is not for Christians to Judge others. In other words, those that never got a chance to hear the Gospel also may or may not go to Heaven--it is not for Christians to make this Judgment for God. Some Christians will say, "Hey wait, You said that I had to do "this" to get to Heaven, but how come that guy did not have to do the same." I believe, that God will respond just like in the parable above. He has kept His promises with them and tell them not to be concerned with what Judgment He decides to give to others that never had a chance to know Christ.
Obviously, I knew this already. I am not challenging you at all, you just asked and I answered with what it says in the Quran. Ok, please provide your source. As the words "Zabh" or "Qurban" do not appear in verse 5:4, I would think twice about taking anymore information from this source. Also, neither "Zabh" or "Qurban" appear in 3:179 or 5:30. The word QURBAANAN appears in 46:27 but with a meaning completely unrelated to sacrifice. It refers to taking other God in "closeness" i.e. worhipping other gods. In fact, the word Qurban wouldn't appear anywhere in the Quran because it only became popularized for eating meat which is slaughtered in an Islamic way (i.e. HALAAL/kosher) and given to poor people, and most people think it is a word adopted either in India, Iran, Afghanistan or Pakistan. Any number of people from those cultures will tell you what "Korbani" means but if you ask an Arabic speaking person (language of the Quran), they will not figure it out. In any case, as I said, human sacrifice of humans is outlawed. Hunting/killing of animals without eating them is not allowed. There is no contradiction of this in the Quran. If you find anything, let me know. It is not the attempted sacrifice that is celebrated now, it is the extreme show of faith after he somehow had this child fortuitously. I repeat for good measure: 022.037 YUSUFALI: It is not their meat nor their blood, that reaches Allah: it is your piety that reaches Him: He has thus made them subject to you, that ye may glorify Allah for His Guidance to you and proclaim the good news to all who do right. You see, no human can kill another human in Islam except for self-defense or really ridiculously extreme historic legendary oppression. How then would a Muslim be sacrificing humans? Sacrificing of animals is not blood for God or meat for God. It is simply that on certain occassions, some Muslims buy sheep/goats, have them slaughtered Islamically (which is essentially reading a couple of sentences, etc) and split the meat among poor people. The act of giving charity due to something good which happened to you then goes up to God in the form of "piety". So it is charity. How would it make sense to take life from something that God gave life, as a gift? What if you gave me a sandwich, and then I took it apart and spit on it, then offered it back to you? However, if I take the sandwich, cut it into pieces, give it to a bunch of hungry orphans, then YOU the sandwichmaker will be happy. Again, there is NO contradiction in the Quran. If you have any doubt whatsoever, please let me know. Truly, out of curiosty, what does go about "baptizing" them mean? I am reading the Bible. I know the basis. I don't believe it. If I do everything Jesus PBUH ever said in the Bible (except claim him to be God)... You're saying that if I sleep with someone's wife, I'm going to hell, but if a "Christian" sleeps with someone's wife, they push the easy button? I'm just trying to grasp if this is what you're trying to say. That this is how God would judge two people.
Good point. While I have said many times here that I wouldn't belong to a religion that would have me as a member (thanks, Groucho!), I continue to be perplexed by a sign I pass somewhere between Austin and La Grange. The sign? God Loves You - Praise Him. I don't get it. If he is God and he loves us, why does he want praise? Isn't desiring praise based on ego? I can't imagine that he would care. After all, he's God. He's either all-powerful and relaxed, or he's incredibly busy. Either way, why would he care about praise?
"What does God expect from us?" is just another way of asking the question "What's the purpose/meaning of life?" Any non-believer can form an opinion/answer that question. It's just semantics to say that because someone doesn't believe in God they can't participate. A rose by any other name, Max. God = purpose.
I wonder about this too. I think it is more for us and not at all for Him. He doesn't gain or lose anything if you don't or do praise Him. I think it's just ultimately a matter of, would a person who believes some entity created him not be thankful to that entity? I guess right now I assume that praying is like sending an email to God and it takes a lot of focus on our part to exit our world and try to communicate through to his world, but He won't necessarily respond. Sure, I'll beg from time to time, but He doesn't owe me anything and I need to go about my life in a way that I have done what I can as a person with reason. That's how I see it at the moment. Would love to hear other thoughts. I've also wondered why prayer has to be done at certain times, sometimes in certain places, with certain rituals, etc. It would be odd to me that God only wants this at certain times or on certain days. This leads me to believe the schedule is made solely for the person of bringing people closer together, rather than having some rigid schedule.
Ok, thanks. I did not know what the Quaran said about Jesus. Ok, I will accept your explaination here. I have not read the Quaran. The Old Testament of the Bible talks about animal sacrifice or offerings to atone for sin. I thought the Old Testament of the Bible and the early history stories of the Quran were basically the same. I seems there are more differences than I thought. Baptism happens after someone accepts Jesus Christ of their own free will. It is not necessary to go to heaven. It symbolises the transformation into the new Christian life. I don't see a issue here. Everyone sins. If a "Christian" sleeps with someone else's wife and thinks its ok because he is a "Christian", he/she is in for a disappointment. Matthew 7:21 – 23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’ This video is addressed to people that claim to be Christians ONLY! <object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/yhX7m3rF20c&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/yhX7m3rF20c&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
from what i've learned from my 31 years in this world, i believe he wants us to love others, love Him, and do the right thing.
If there is God(s) it is so far beyond human comprehension as to defy any attempts at understanding it. I will put forward one thought about what God might want from us. To be interesting. Arthur C. Clarke once wrote "the stupefying boredome of omnipotence" and if there truly is an all knowing all powerful being existence to it must be impossibly boring. So what if our creation and endowment of free will was really just way of providing entertainment? On a practical level I don't think there is much purpose in trying to determine and live by the will of God or to love and be loved by God. As a believer in Karma I think if we live a life where we try to make the world better is reward in and of itself.
It'd be self-gratifying to think an omnipotent power would consider us as entertainment. Maybe we're an antfarm. Or that weeks old Chinese food hidden in the back of the fridge.
