Clutch, sounds you and I agree that Jimmy "The Greek" was fired for racist remarks. I say Kagy's comment is overtly racist. CNN used very similar comments to illustrate why Jimmy "The Greek" was fired. CNN chose that particular comment for the segment. Kagy refuses to back down from a point that CNN uses to illustrate overt racism. Clutch, I am the ******* in this thread, not heypartner. jam "don't believe the biased liberal media" cracker
You know, at some point (which has long, long been passed) I really feel heated conversations ought to stop being public. I mean, I understand that I don't have to read any of this, that this is a place for people to express themselves, but I find the way meanness continues escalating rather disturbing, and feel the public nature of this communication plays a significant part in its continuity. I know it's not that big a deal in the large scheme of things, but I just feel it would be better for everyone if everyone thought twice before posting in anger, and considered the alternative of using e-mail if they want to express something to an individual that may not be relevant or appropriate to all the other readers on this board. I really love coming to this board and reading everyone's thoughts, and contributing once in awhile. I feel it's unfortunate not that people have conflicts or differences of opinions, but just that the ugliness that can arise when we get emotional keeps escalating until inter-party relations are truly damaged as a result. You know, that whole "turning the cheek" bit makes a lot of practical sense from a utilitarian point of view. I wish I were more eloquent, but I hope you guys get my drift. I know it doesn't concern me, but it truly pains me to see people not get along. And I hope I raise a valid point in suggesting that people make more effort to keep some things private. ------------------
And I want to add that I'm not saying we shouldn't talk things out on the board; just that we consider once in awhile whether we really, truly want to say something, especially something that can be hurtful to someone else, for everyone to read. Peace. ------------------
Plus, I say Kagy's comment is worse (racist-er? ) than Jimmy the Greek's because BK makes sure to mention that whites are 80% of ticket and merchandise sales. Plus, I found, watched and transcribed an archive of a news broadcast from 1988. I posted the results. Clutch refuted me by saying "and I quote". Post a link, Clutch. jam "We all know Kagy pulled that '80%' number out of his ass, right?" cracker
Since this thread looks like it's going to get worse tomorrow I figure I'll throw in that I'm impressed with the way Kagy's handled the namecalling. Especially after reading Brian go nuts on other people in other threads in this forum, I'm impressed with how he's been able to keep his cool. I know if some dude on a messageboard talked about having me figured out and talking about my physical appearance, I'd probably be a lot less reserved than Brian's been in this thread. So props to Brian. I'd also like to add that I enjoy shaving my testicles, and it's not that frustrating and tedious for me. I've got it down to a science actually. ------------------ If you want it you got it, You just got to believe, Believe in yourself, Cause it's all just a game, We just want to be loved
Have any of you been here long enough to consider other posters........people you've never met........as friends? BK wrote: I'm not so sure I agree with that sentiment. Well.....actually, I don't think I agree with his assessment of why some people would like to see this thread ended. Maybe some people just don't want to see friends hurt each other. Or maybe some of us just need to get a life. Mostly me. Take care everyone. It's summer....or close enough; I think it's time for a break. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
Jamcracker- If you don't like the way this thread is going, the perhaps you need to quit posting. I personally do not find what he said racist. If you want racist comments, I can gladly introduce you to a few people. People say things that I do not agree with and which I do not care to hear. Instead of me blasting them, I just choose to ignore them. ------------------ If Bill Gates had a dime for every time Windows crashed... Oh, Wait!! He Does!
This will likely be my last word on the subject, so those of you who wanted the topic dropped are making progress. 1) My first remark: I don't understand what's racist about this. I am not saying that whites are superior to blacks and thus should have a greater percentage of jobs. I don't understand how it can be seen as bigoted. I'm not saying it's good or bad. As I said before, I just think it's funny that the only area where people aren't up in arms about racial proportionality is at the ticket booth. That's all. Most of the players in the two professional sports I follow are black. OK. Most of the coaches are white. OK. Is there predjudice in the hiring practices that lead to statement No. 2? Yes. Not OK. Is racial prejudice the sole, major, or even prominent reason No. 2 is true? Not in my opinion. Do I find it inconsistent that statement #1 is accepted without question as to how it came about while statement #2 is treated as the result of a sinister, racist plot? Yes. That's what led to the 2nd statement. I just think the assumption that because a lot of the players are black, a lot of the coaches should and must be too is fallacious. How does one automatically follow the other? I agree that Sherm Lewis and Art Shell should be coaching NFL teams. I don't agree that because the coaching staffs do not match the racial breakdown of the league's rosters, the NFL has been proven racist. Second, Hey-P: I meant under the specific circumstances of this thread. If the environment is one in which you can either say "Racism is the cause of everything" or be verbally stoned for daring to raise an argument, as it looks like it's been here, then no-- no one that I know and consider intellectual would find that stimulating. You are really barking up the wrong tree regarding the "censorship" of Markell's signature especially considering he emailed the Admins to apologize for it without being asked. The N-word is not appropriate no matter who is using it or why; social and political opinions no matter how vile are permissible as long as they're expressed in an appropriate manner. There is no inconsistency there. Lastly: Can we just be clear on one thing? I am somewhere between 6-1 and 6-2. I am not a little guy. I'm taller than my dad and have been since I was 16, so there! I also would like to ask who looks angrier in this thread: me, or the person who's accused me of being angry? God bless you all. ------------------ Handsomer than Buster Poindexter since November of 2000. [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited May 23, 2001).]
Look, you don't just end threads because you are uncomfortable being amongst people who argue, or whatever the reason. You let it go on because this is how things get settled, by talking about it. Racism is a hot topic to discuss. Some people feel more comfortable talking about it than others. As we have seen, some people are more easily offended than others. Personally, I don't find BKs comment to be racist at all. I'm convinced that he threw that out there to stir debate. It was a valid point because the are people (owners?) who do feel that way. Brian has said repeatedly that he never said he believed that statement. Sarcasm is harder to read than to hear. What we could have done without is the name-calling and the profiling/stereotyping. Heated arguments are how we come to understand one another. Always know that not everyone thinks like you do or agrees with everything you say or think. We are all different. We all have different ideas and thoughts. Whena this is all over, I'm sure HP, JC, BK, and C will all have a better understanding of each other. They may not come to any mutual agreement, but they will understand each other a little bit more. Hell, they may all like each other a lot less after this! But does it really matter? Not really. They don't have to like each other. Just as long as they understand each other. I personally would like to see everyone involved in this topic to leave it having settled everything. This should not carry over to another topic. Obviously there are some issues between C and HP that still linger. Hopefully they will work that out. ------------------
SpaceCity, I think most people requesting the ending of the thread are talking about the flamewars. You are correct; the original topic of the thread had merit. Maybe someone could start the thread "anew" if they think it's worthwhile. The potential for discussion with people such as rimbaud and Rocket River seems good enough to warrant it. Interesting topic, nonetheless. ------------------ "If a nuclear bomb dropped on earth, two things would survive: roaches and David Falk." -- Kevin McHale quote courtesy of Patricia Bender's website.
http://www.goodbyemag.com/apr/snyder.htm http://detnews.com/menu/stories/44918.htm http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment050200d.html http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/almanac/video/1988/ (the link describing your video) http://www.frontpagemag.com/columnists/ponte/2001/ponte03-07-01p.htm http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/newark_star.htm http://www.jonentine.com/reviews/ottawa_cit_recon.htm I'm getting kind of tired now. What did you think -- I made that quote up? This kind of sums it up: Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder was fired as a CBS football analyst at age 68 in 1988 for telling a Washington, D.C., television interviewer that so many Blacks were successful in sports because "the slave owner would breed his big black with his big woman so that he would have a big black kid. That’s where it all started." There were indeed other things Snyder said, but this was by far the worst. Just about any news story on the matter you will read quotes it and associates that line with him being fired. Thus you trying to say Kagy said exactly what The Greek did to get fired, only worse, is blatantly false. Kagy has stated what he meant by it -- you don't have to agree, but you simply refuse to accept it, are trying to classify him as a racist for the sentence and won't apologize for your hypocritical stereotypes and for making this very, very personal, and that's what makes you, by your own admission, the *******. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
It's spelled weird, not wierd. (that's for Clutch and Jeff, and anyone else who's misspelled it) Kagy, I totally agree with you. I didn't bring up the proportionality of players to coaches to be my only reason why I think that there are racial issues in coaching. I brought it up because I totally understand why Winslow would want his son to play for a school with more prominant black coaches. Also, it shows that there are more blacks than whites that are in school, so to speak. It's kinda like if 75% of the students at univerisities were black, but only 10% of them held jobs. I think it's worth looking at, just not the main reason why I believe that there are some racial issues in the hiring of coaches. As for the other stuff, I hated BrianKagy in an internet sense of the word. Then, for some reason, one morning I woke up, got on Clutchcity, and realized that it was stupid. It's a freakin' internet site. Kagy has vastly different political stances than I do. So does my Mom. So did my best roommate ever. They always pissed me off, but I loved them all the same. So I was really pumped about meeting him despite our differences in the past. Even though I've only met him once, I could tell he's the kind of guy that I'd love to have a couple of beers (or spritzers you wuss!) with while watching the Rockets or whatever. I found that to be the case with everyone I've met from this BBS (Clutch, TheFreak, DaDakota, kissofdeath, SamCassell, Jeff, others). Three of those maybe not if I'd have held on to my stupid thoughts I had during my first year or so here. ------------------ www.swirve.com "Pre-born, you're fine, pre-school, you're f*****."-George Carlin
I hate you and you suck. Your Friend, Jeff P.S. Bite me you wuss! he he he he (BTW: In all seriousness, RM95, your post rocked!) ------------------ The internet is about the free exchange and sale of other people's ideas. - Futurama
Remember that Kagy's commenting on an article describing father asking son to consider the racial makeup of the coaching staffs and universities he wanted to play for. These comments are very very similar. No argument about the similarity, right? BK edited a slur out of someone's signature. Looks to me like the original poster was quoting a song lyric, as opposed to calling someone a n*****. Which is worse? Quoting the N-word in a rap lyric? Or quoting Jimmy the Greek? Kagy has been defended by clutch and other posters for quoting a racist statement made by Jimmy the Greek. I find Kagy's statement much more offensive than quoting lyrics containing the N-word in a signature. BK's coming back the next day and telling us what he "really" meant doesn't change anything. He refuses to edit his offensive comments. ------------------ "Some folks look for answers / Others look for fights / Some folks up in tree tops / Just looking for their kites"
Jamcracker, do you not find it strange that you are basically the only person who finds his comments offensive? Most people might not agree, but I don't remember anyone else saying they thought his comments were offensive at all. Do you think that maybe you might just be reading a little too much into his statements? ------------------ "I'm just a poster, and I want a piece of everyone's ass." HeyPartner And the truth shall set you free...
Jamcracker, you are not helping yourself. I wish you could take a step back and just look at the impression you're giving-- it is not at all flattering. Huh. An apple and and orange are similar, aren't they? I mean, they're both fruit. ????? When did I quote a dead sportscaster? I didn't know Markell was quoting anything. I knew that the N-word was as offensive as the words on the banned word list to a lot of people, so I edited it. I am not telling anyone what I "really" meant, jamcracker. I am explaining what I meant because you are either unable to figure it out, or unwilling to admit that you knew all along what I meant and stepped on your dick on this one. I'd say you're in the latter category here. I will point out one last time: you have still not apologized for your personal attack on me. I think an apology is appropriate. One other question I would like to ask you: why, if you 'never' liked me, were you so obseqiously nice to me when we met in person? You seem to have a pathological dislike for me, and you had a perfect opportunity to tell me straight to my face that you thought I was a racist and you didn't like me. And you didn't do it. It's obvious from your conduct in this thread that it wasn't because of your manners. So what was it? ------------------ Handsomer than Buster Poindexter since November of 2000.
I can understand it, too. I first encountered that mentality when I was reading about Jerod Mustaf's college search (Mustaf was one of the top five HS seniors in 1987 and made playing for a black coach a priority). I am just not sure it's a wise way to approach things. In Mustaf's case, he ended up playing for Bob Wade at Maryland. Bob Wade. Ouch. All things being equal, I can understand it; I just think of it in some ways as reverse discrimination.
He's not helping himself at all. After questioning the validity of the Jimmy "The Greek" Snyder quote, he just chose to ignore 7 articles that documented exactly what he said and why he was fired. This is McCarthyism... no amount of rational thought will help. He's on a Witch Hunt in Salem and by God he will find a witch. Maybe he was afraid to call you a racist because you were with your Asian girlfriend. ------------------ NOTHING BUT .NET CLUTCHCITY.NET
Is something offense if it only offends one person? Are we at a point in this world where we have to be careful what we say so that one person doesn't get offended? Ok Jam, you're offended. We all get it. We know how you feel. At this point you're really reaching. You're taking a statement that was not meant to offensive and trying your best to convince us all why it was. Just doesn't make sense. Are you really that sensitive or are you just really bored? As for the N-bomb being censored, it doesn't matter what we think about it. This is not our BBS. It's not a publicly owned media. It's a service that an individual provides for free to all of us. It's his house, so we play by his rules. In order to make sure that this place doesn't turn into the equivalent of an ESPN board, some rules have been put in place. If several more people agreed with you then this would be a whole different story. Apparently you are alone in thinking that Brian was being a racist. And you not letting it go is just making this all a lot worse than it really is. If we've all learned anything, it's that you are a racially sensitive person. Nothing wrong with that. But even the people that you are trying to protect (or whatever your reasons are) are not seeing this like you do. Brian explained where he was coming from. If you still don't beleive him then that is no longer his problem, it's yours. I hate to see you keep digging yourself into this hole. ------------------ [This message has been edited by SpaceCity (edited May 23, 2001).]
