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What Do You Expect Harden To Do?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by htownrox1, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Harden is most effective when he has a lot of space at the top of the key. That's how the Rockets maximize his particular skill set, and it is why his offensive production has reached historically high levels the past few years.

    We can try to use him in different ways, but I think Harden needs to adapt and evolve his game to make that work as well or better. He is a 31 year old player, though, so it's quite possible that he is what he is at this stage. He is not a great post up player. He is not an elite scorer from mid-range. He doesn't have the stand-out physical tools to explode past defenders in close space.
     
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  2. James.B.H

    James.B.H Member

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    Harden is no MJ, he doesn't have the physical capability to just pull up and shoot over multiple players. MJ is the best scorer/best player in the playoffs, this is just fact.

    That being said, as much as Harden has been doubled this series, he still averages 29 PPG, shooting 47% from the field, 41.4% from the three. Considering that over 40% of his shots are from three, he is actually very efficient this series. He did find ways to score despite double teamed, and he was making the right plays most of the time.

    Can he do better? Yes. If we have MJ instead of Harden, we are probably in lead now. But asking Harden to be MJ is unfair to him. He is an all time top 20 caliber player, not GOAT. It's not his fault that the team need him to be GOAT in order for us to win but he can't be.
     
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  3. blahblehblah

    blahblehblah Member

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    Watching Toronto vs boston game 6 reminded me why I was always such a big Lowry fan and why watching those rockets teams was much funner than the rockets of the past half decade +. (Only CP3 first rocket year was better)

    Those teams weren't as talented or good. And Lowry is nowhere close to harden as a scorer or talent. But damn if he doesn't lap him in leadership, heart and effort.

    This rockets team has consistently come out flat, no show or just plain quit in multiple big games in multiple seasons, that when it happens it isn't even a surprise. Game 4 was the latest. The energy, heart and urgency which they played that game is a reflection on the team, the coach and most importantly, it's best player.

    Jvg always said, your best player not the coach that determines the direction and attitude of the team. They either buy-in, lead through their effort or personality or they don't.
     
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  4. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    This is truth. People think he should get 0 blame but I've seen him just walk the ball right up court and right into the double, expecting it, submitting to it.

    It's not ALL of his fault to be sure, the coach should be demanding him to move, to attack, to counter it but he shares a large chunk of the blame as well.
     
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  5. xtruroyaltyx

    xtruroyaltyx Member

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    I knew someone would reply with this exact response.

    1) If this is the case then Harden is not the best scorer of all time if all it takes is for a double to relegate him to bystander.
    2) Yes I pulled MJ, but there’s tons of stars that deal with double teams. I found several videos on YouTube with players dealing with double teams.
     
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  6. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    But where in this video is MJ passing it out and then running off ball? In fact where is he passing it period? Harden was doing this all of game 3. It's not easy to do that for a multiple games with terrible spacing.
     
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  7. James.B.H

    James.B.H Member

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    1) I never called Harden the best scorer of all time. In the very post you quoted, I said MJ is the best scorer of all time and it's not even close.
    2) Yes, stars should all be capable of dealing with double teams to some extent. Harden can deal with it too, and as a matter of fact, he did a good job when facing double teams, a super efficient 29 PPG is the proof. But what you're asking is he deals with double teams at a level of prime MJ, that he can't do and it's unfair to require him to do so.
     
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  8. pmac

    pmac Contributing Member

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    In a regular season game we would benefit from Harden getting some easy buckets moving off the ball. But, in the playoffs all eyes are on him and he won't get open. Confusing the defense is great in the regular season. But, in the playoffs, you will need to be better than other team because they have scouted everything you do. The Lakers just have more talent.

    On offense, I want the ball in Harden's hands. He's such a good playmaker that even when he plays poorly, playing through him is good offense. The only thing I would like to see him work on offense is his floater accuracy. He needs to be able to score when he gets all the way to the paint and the big man is just standing in the paint to block his shot. Other than that, we have to have role players that can punish you for double teaming.
     
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  9. xtruroyaltyx

    xtruroyaltyx Member

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    1) I didn't say YOU did. You made that statement about you by quoting my post. I just made a general statement in a post addressed to no one in particular and you quoted me. I carried my point over from my initial post.

    2) We have different definitions on successfully dealing with doubles as a star player.
     
    #69 xtruroyaltyx, Sep 11, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2020
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  10. CDrex

    CDrex Contributing Member

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    I generally agree that this is mostly not on Harden. He's generally making the best possible play against a defense determined to make his teammates beat them.

    However, when he does get the ball facing single coverage, he seems to actually wait on the defense to send the double. I'd prefer he attack in transition more, and look to make a move the instant he touches the ball more. His patient play has led to a Rockets career playoff low in TOs, but I think he's missed a lot of opportunities to attack a scrambling defense while he squares up and carefully reads the floor.
     
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  11. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Teams start doubling hard off ball on Harden in the fourth. Hence why he gets so passive by the 4th quarter. He does most of his damage before this.
     
  12. Deuce

    Deuce Context & Nuance

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    My favorite posts are when Nook comes in here and just LINE ITEM all the facts. Feels like too many people just ignore these bullet points.

     
  13. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    [​IMG]
     
  14. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    It is not about the excuses
    It is...... what do you expect him to do?

    Let's not act like we have not been down a STARTER for the last two games.
    Covington is simply looking right.
    PJ seems like he is on one leg.

    Ego was not sharp

    Remove Harden and the other teams main superstar.......
    Which team is better with the remaining players?

    2-15 which team is better Rockets? Lakers? Okc?

    Rocket River
     
  15. foggy94

    foggy94 Member

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    D’Antoni went on Zach Lowe’s podcast just before the season and I thought it was pretty clear he didn’t want the trade
     
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  16. ParaSolid

    ParaSolid Member

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    this is true. I think harden is a net positive in the +/- for the series, and the team is a giant negative when he sits.
     
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  17. sealclubber1016

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    Harden is far too accepting of double teams. Either play off ball and see what Westbrook can do, or more aggressively attack the double team. Just allowing it to happen when it's stalling our offense isn't good.

    Now obviously Westbrook has been absolute trash and is a complete liability. Its not his fault that the personnel isn't built to attack, but when something isn't working you have to try something else, even if it doesn't seem like a good idea.
     
  18. TimDuncanDonaut

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    Q: What to expect Harden to do.

    A: I expect Harden to do something drastic, like I don't know... shave his beard. He will be unrecognizable to the Lakers, so they don't know who to trap. He will also be unrecognizable to his teammates, so Rockets should have a code word.

    Harden without a beard will generate so much TV rating, that Adam Silver puts in a referee crew forcefully put HOU to a game 7.

    The End.

    p.s. Harden will popularize the clean shaven look, that Lebron will jump on that bandwagon and shave his too.
     
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  19. TWS1986

    TWS1986 SPX '05, UH' 19
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    Keep posting good stuff my friend. It's appreciated on all the insider info!
     
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  20. TWS1986

    TWS1986 SPX '05, UH' 19
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    Bunch of punk ass bitches,indeed.
     
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