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What Do You Expect Harden To Do?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by htownrox1, Sep 11, 2020.

  1. Zoplicone

    Zoplicone Member

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    It just feels like we’ve tried everything now and that’s what’s so deflating. We’ve made it all about Harden and that didn’t work. We brought in someone who has the competitive spirit and leadership few can match in Chris Paul, and that couldn’t last two seasons. We tried bringing someone in who Harden genuinely enjoys seeing he didn’t like the previous scenario, and that didn’t work. We’re not bringing in a KD to be Harden’s sidekick. We tried a lot and not only did we not get the result we wanted, we also ran out of chances to try again. No cap space. No picks. Very little trade assets. Age not on our side.

    Not everyone wins a championship I guess. Not easy living in Toronto and accepting that haha.
    Sheesh. I remember when 1 playoff series victory was all I was asking for.
     
  2. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    I donno, he was going aggressively at the traps before in game 3. Or maybe its just different in game 4, honestly our spacing is bad so it makes it way easier to trap us.
     
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  3. heads.up

    heads.up Member

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    Only thing Harden needs to do is not give up on the play after passing the ball out of the double team. Dude just stands at half court tf? On the other hand, Mike D. needs to get off his butt and coach for once. Lakers are scheming the hell out our offense and he has not made a single adjustment. They are sitting on the 3pt corner passes but that leaves the paint wide open. Too bad we have weak finishers at the rim.
     
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  4. Nook

    Nook Member

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    The problem isn't really James Harden.

    For years when Harden was doubled in the playoffs he would force the action and his turnovers would go up and his shooting percentage would go down.

    He stopped doing that and now is making the proper pass and setting other people up.... as a result his efficiency is off the charts in the playoffs.

    Now I read things like "Harden didn't have a single field goal in the 4th quarter", well yeah, he passed to someone open when he was doubled and they fouled him when he had single coverage..... he had 6 points, 3 rebounds, 2 assists a block and a steal in the 4th quarter.... he did what he could do.

    The biggest problem is that Westbrook has been an absolute disaster so the Lakers have not had a need to really pay too much attention to Westbrook and the only other player that can create is Gordon and he is inconsistent........ then you have the fact that the Rockets are killed when Harden goes to the bench.

    I was critical of Harden in one of the 4th quarter games against the Thunder because he turned the ball over....... but for the most part the issue against the Lakers hasn't been Harden even though that is the lazy and easy thing for articles to print.

    At this point he has to decide whether to keep making the smart play and passing when doubled or do what he has tried to do several years ago, which is force it and see an increase in turnovers.

    I feel bad for him to some extent, because a lot of the criticism he is getting isn't justified.
     
  5. Asian Sensation

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    21 points on 2-11 shooting with 5 turnovers is bad.
     
  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    Harden didn't run Chris Paul out of town.

    Harden wanted to add Jimmy Butler to Chris Paul.

    Harden and Paul were perfectly fine as teammates.... the problems the second year together were the loss of their wings and injuries to Paul.
     
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  7. Verbal Christ

    Verbal Christ Member

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    for a team built to beat the Warriors, these guys never saw the Lakers coming.

    James needs a paint monster. An alley oop threat and a true 2 man companion. Cap is definitely missed. PJ Tucker has more heart than anyone, but he's just like Chuck Hayes, limited on offense and not someone that can be relied upon in critical games.

    Just blame James -- its the en vogue thing to do. He had a crappy game last night. Was still doing enough on defense not to fall into a NEGATIVE +/- so there is that.

    "it is what it is"
     
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  8. Nook

    Nook Member

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    He had 21 points, 10 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 steals and 3 blocks.......... and every single Rockets starter was -10 to -18 except for Harden who was a -0- ... in the 9 minutes Harden sat, the Rockets were outscored by 10 points.

    Harden every series has a bad shooting game, that is just a flaw of his..... however he contributes in other ways now when he isn't shooting well. He defended very well and passed well.

    I get that Harden is the biggest star on the Rockets, but he really hasn't been the problem in this series.
     
  9. Zoplicone

    Zoplicone Member

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    Never said he ran him out of town. And I would never insinuate Harden has ever been a drama queen like a lot of stars appear to be. But to say things were “perfectly fine” in my eyes is just not true. Not saying it’s his fault but things weren’t great. And if you think he didn’t push for sending Paul out for Westbrook then that’s delusional. The whole “he wanted to get Westbrook on top of Chris Paul” is just made up. Harden has been in the league for a decade+. Pretty sure he understands the basics of how trades work.
     
  10. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    53 TS% 21 points with 20 FTs and 10 assists....is bad for Harden. And the man was still a plus minus of zero even with all the starters in the negative. Lebron actually had a worse TS% for that game.

    Yea he was bad...but this double team is a much bigger issue. He's been good for 3 our of 4 games and all of them are important.
     
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  11. igotwhipscollectingdust

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    He shot more free throws than the Lakers did.
     
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  12. HP3

    HP3 Member

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    Do you see these guy's talking about moving off ball...like it's something the coaching staff never thought of? The guy carries the whole offense, get's doubled(he does make lazy passes though) and the spacing is bad when he traps. It's like they think him and Curry are the same body type and he can run around screens or something and the guy's wont follow him.
     
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  13. ak99999

    ak99999 Member

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    MDA and Harden need to realize that someone else should be bringing the ball up and Harden should move and play off-ball.

    So tired of the slow walk it up Harden that lets the defense setup and then jack it up in the last seconds.
     
  14. xtruroyaltyx

    xtruroyaltyx Member

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    Some of y’all act like being double teamed is new and Harden is the first player to have to deal with them.



    How can you prop him up as being the best or one of the best offensive players ever and then say “wHaT iS hE suPpoSeD tO Do AGainSt DoUbLe TeaMs?”

    Even if you pass out of it, go do something else. Don’t just become a spectator and watch the role players try to score. Go try to get the ball back again in a better position.
     
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  15. Nook

    Nook Member

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    No, Chris Paul and James Harden were fine as teammates. They were not great friends off the court but that is the case a lot of times.

    Harden never asked the Rockets to move Chris Paul. In fact he was attempting to get Jimmy Butler to add with Chris Paul.

    Harden DID let Morey know privately that Westbrook would welcome a trade, but the idea for Harden was to see if Westbrook would be able to be added to Paul and Harden was told no.

    Morey also told Harden that a trade of Paul for Westbrook wasn't likely to happen and Harden was fine with that.

    Could Harden have said :"don't trade Paul for Westbrook"......... yes he absolutely could have and he did not.

    However James was never trying to get Paul out of Houston.

    The Westbrook trade was dead until ownership insisted on it happening.

    Most NBA players are not great friends with their teammates.... they usually all get along and are close to one or two....... so the Paul and Harden relationship wasn't weird.

    Chris Paul was pissed because he was told by Morey that he wasn't going to be dealt and then the owner insisted on the deal and Paul was traded..... and my understanding was that Paul wasn't happy that Harden didn't insist on the Rockets keeping Paul over Westbrook...... which I understand and that is also motivation for Paul as well.

    The only "star" that Harden didn't really care for was Howard, and even then he didn't ask them to move on from Howard.... he did however confront Howard at one point and told him that he wasn't serious enough.... but that was it, no screaming, fighting, etc.

    A lot of the stuff is really overblown.
     
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  16. Zoplicone

    Zoplicone Member

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    Yeah. But I mean is Harden going to get up the floor and be ready when the other player is setting up the play?
     
  17. Zoplicone

    Zoplicone Member

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    Maybe, maybe not. Everything you said you don’t know for sure and everything I disagree with I don’t know for sure. I agree that Harden did not demand Paul be traded, nor even ask to move on. But the whole asking if we can have both Paul and Westbrook I do not believe for a second Harden thought that was possible. Let’s be real.
    Morey would never throw Harden under the bus and reveal how much James really pushed the front office to execute the deal.

    I just believe Harden knows if he really pushes for something with front office he knows he can get it, and I would assume he did that for Russ. It’s not hard to believe that Russ had open communication with Thunder Front Office about his next move, nor is it hard to believe Harden and Russ had open communication with each other.
     
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  18. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    appreciate you continuously having to correct false assumptions. @Nook cf's loves to try and create their own little narratives when its convenient for them no matter how outrageous they are. especially the casuals who don't know any better

    every single thing you've posted about the summer of 19 has aligned with everything that's come out from shams, woj etc. people will continue to just believe what they want to believe even if its false and made up in their own mind
     
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  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    It's absolutely justified due to how he is the easiest guard in NBA history to double due to how stationary he is. Doesn't he know the defender can't impede the progress of an off ball offensive player? He can sprint anytime and call for a screen and run some sort of cut or curl action to free himself. Not only will it free himself, it will discombobulate the defense.

    But nope. All he does is hover between the 3 pt line and half court line and walk around when shaded.
     
  20. Nook

    Nook Member

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    I have a really good idea.... because I know someone that was involved in the discussions.... I even posted it on these boards only to have it verified by the owner of the team in an interview later.

    Of course Harden and and Westbrook had open communication about wanting to play together. Harden knew Westbrook was open to leaving OKC before the Thunder GM did. They are very close.

    What I do know and what has been confirmed is that Daryl Morey told James Harden that the Rockets were not likely to decide to trade Chris Paul for Russell Westbrook and James Harden was fine with that.

    The owner is the one that decided that the trade would be complete even when the GM and coach were not in agreement.

    Now, was James Harden on board with dealing Paul for Westbrook? Absolutely........ but there was never a nefarious plan on the part of Harden to get Paul out of Houston.... Harden did want Paul plus another player like Butler or Westbrook on the Rockets.

    Paul and Harden also got along fine..... they were not hanging out together....... but that isn't shocking as Paul is older, has multiple children and a wife and a set of older friends.... Harden is single, doesn't have children and most of his friends are outside of basketball.
     
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