What Do the Rockets Need (Or Not Have) for a Championship

We need a healthy Brian Cook to win a championship.

 

Three things.

1. RA was the coach that year (2009) so don't give me anything about a JVG template.
2. No play-off series win in 2009.... remember. So if you are parading the JVG template around and claiming that season to be part of it then you failed.
3. Last season is clearly and with out question the best season we have had in years because we actually advanced in the play-offs using the DM/RA template.

Several things - my reference was to the 2007-2008 season - the year after the Rockets fired JVG - but the roster was his. It was 2008 - January through March that the Yao-McGrady combo flourished with the 22 and when healthy was clearly the best team in the league. Yes - Adledperson was the coach that season - and that is my point - we have moved steadily downward since.

Your point about last year - makes my point. You are satisfied that last year was a serious run for the Rockets - but truth be told - they beat Portland who had not been in the playoffs in a generation - and while the games beating the Lakers were nice candy - at crunch games they were blown out.

I admire the Rockets players - they do alot with a little. But if the goal is to be competitive for a NBA championship - I don't see the plan - nor has anyone articulated one.

 

It's clear our defense is predicated on funneling penetration into Yao. Without that this year, teams are getting easy layups on us too often.

 

Rockets are champions as currently constructed.

 

w need playmakin wing that can get his own shot AND is dedicated to playin solid D and we need an athletic 5 who can alter and block shots and rebound, then we could b lookin at a championship caliber club

 

1. A Healthy Yao.

2. A Starting SG.

The 1st one is a lot more needed than the 2nd one. Defense wins championships and without him our defense has a big hole in the middle. He is our most talented athlete on our roster now.

 

The Rockets have actually had the templates to win, especially last year.


1. Elite center (Yao Ming) [Isn't it fair to say that he is among the top 3 centers in the league at worst] [Yao or a player like him gets the team tough points, draws double teams, plays good defense, and brings shotblocking ability and above average rebounding]. It's clear we are not going to find another center who can do that. Again, people keep throwing out Bosh and Amar'e, but the only things they might be able to that Yao does is scoring and rebounding. But, people often forget about the intangibles, the defense, and the price tag that will come with those players. What other centers can we afford or find out there at the same price for Yao?


2. Good SG (T-Mac/maybe Wafer at times) [Doesn't necessarily have to be a superstar, needs to be a fairly good scorer, be able to hit most open shots, create own offense, and play above average defense.] [This player doesn't have to be an outstanding defender, if the defense behind him is good and teams can rotate really well, then it's not necessarily a glaring weakness]

3. Backup Center (Dikembe Mutombo) [This is probably the most overlooked aspect. Mutombo made things much easier for the Rockets, when Yao went down with his occasional (sometimes season ending) injury. Mutombo was still an outstanding rebounder and shot-blocker, even being near senior citizen age. He also intimidated players from driving to the basket. Probably better than alot of younger players in their prime.


Though, one of his biggest strength (and weakness) is that he didn't really demand the ball on offense. That can be good for the other players, yet bad when we play great defensive teams. With all of that being said, his injury might been 1st or 2nd most devastating team that could happen to the team, during course of the season. For one, it meant we'd have to go through the rest of playoffs without a backup center and someone who can deter players away from the basket (and who is also good rebounder). Also, remember, nearly every competitive team near the top has that element to their team . . . Lakers; Nuggets; Mavericks; Trailblazers (before the injuries); Celtics; Magic; and Cavs (this year). I thought signing a center, even he was barely average would be better than signing Ariza. The team could score alot of points with or without Ariza, but the defense and rebounding is suffering with no one to start for extending period at center. Since, we essentially are playing without a center. Yet, posters really can't figure out why we are losing and are having these knee-jerk reactions to every game we lose.

It's almost unbelievable to expect team to be anywhere above the 5th or 6th seed. No superstar/all-star players (to their resume), no center (except David Andersen), a reliable shooting guard, team defense has decline, and Ariza has not played as well as he should (be given heavy minutes). There's no way this team is going to better than the elites of the conference. The outstanding play of our role players can carry them through portions of the season and possibly even a series or two in the playoffs, but to expect them to get good seed in the West would be unreasonable for this team.

I believe if Yao and (or) Mutombo were healthy for the entire Lakers series, we would've seen the upset come and possibly the NBA championship. I almost hate karma and fate for what we could've did last year. It's really hard pill to swallow.

The Rockets have actually had the templates to win, especially last year.


1. Elite center (Yao Ming) [Isn't it fair to say that he is among the top 3 centers in the league at worst] [Yao or a player like him gets the team tough points, draws double teams, plays good defense, and brings shotblocking ability and above average rebounding]. It's clear we are not going to find another center who can do that. Again, people keep throwing out Bosh and Amar'e, but the only things they might be able to that Yao does is scoring and rebounding. But, people often forget about the intangibles, the defense, and the price tag that will come with those players. What other centers can we afford or find out there at the same price for Yao?


2. Good SG (T-Mac/maybe Wafer at times) [Doesn't necessarily have to be a superstar, needs to be a fairly good scorer, be able to hit most open shots, create own offense, and play above average defense.] [This player doesn't have to be an outstanding defender, if the defense behind him is good and teams can rotate really well, then it's not necessarily a glaring weakness]

3. Backup Center (Dikembe Mutombo) [This is probably the most overlooked aspect. Mutombo made things much easier for the Rockets, when Yao went down with his occasional (sometimes season ending) injury. Mutombo was still an outstanding rebounder and shot-blocker, even being near senior citizen age. He also intimidated players from driving to the basket. Probably better than alot of younger players in their prime.


Though, one of his biggest strength (and weakness) is that he didn't really demand the ball on offense. That can be good for the other players, yet bad when we play great defensive teams. With all of that being said, his injury might been 1st or 2nd most devastating team that could happen to the team, during course of the season. For one, it meant we'd have to go through the rest of playoffs without a backup center and someone who can deter players away from the basket (and who is also good rebounder). Also, remember, nearly every competitive team near the top has that element to their team . . . Lakers; Nuggets; Mavericks; Trailblazers (before the injuries); Celtics; Magic; and Cavs (this year). I thought signing a center, even he was barely average would be better than signing Ariza. The team could score alot of points with or without Ariza, but the defense and rebounding is suffering with no one to start for extending period at center. Since, we essentially are playing without a center. Yet, posters really can't figure out why we are losing and are having these knee-jerk reactions to every game we lose.

It's almost unbelievable to expect team to be anywhere above the 5th or 6th seed. No superstar/all-star players (to their resume), no center (except David Andersen), a reliable shooting guard, team defense has decline, and Ariza has not played as well as he should (be given heavy minutes). There's no way this team is going to better than the elites of the conference. The outstanding play of our role players can carry them through portions of the season and possibly even a series or two in the playoffs, but to expect them to get good seed in the West would be unreasonable for this team.

I believe if Yao and (or) Mutombo were healthy for the entire Lakers series, we would've seen the upset come and possibly the NBA championship. I almost hate karma and fate for what we could've did last year. It's really a hard pill to swallow, but it is the nature of the game.

 

I disagree with some (most) of you about the PF position.

Scola and Landry are very good players... offensively. Championship teams have elite defensive potential, and I'm not sure you can reach that potential with this couple. They give PF position a very poor global defensive level.

 

Ex-tmac like player and we are pretty much set

our supporting squad is great rightnow

 

this team has to much money tied up in battier,ariza,tmac,yao thats why they wont win. if ariza and battier combined make 15,000,000, id rather have 1 allstar making 15mil instead of 2 role players making 7 mil and one sucks badly

the other, is yao makes another 20mil after extension, if he isnt the same we are SCREWED for 4 more years

ariza is on the books for 4 years, so no moves can be made since lux tax is an issue and our cap is blown

brooks and landry will want raises, so that means bye bye lowry and scola. meanwhile we are stuck with crappy ariza ,injury prone yao,no more tmac,and anderson ,so heres what the team will look like in 2 years 2012

brooks(extension) ,conroy (lowry gone becuz of tax)
ariza(still sucking) ,taylor(probably horrible)
budinger(battier is gone)
landry(extension),hayes(scola gone becuz of tax)
yao(32 yrs old and past prime),david anderson(hayes gone cuz of tax)

what a horrible team,the extensions to brooks and landry will kill this team, yao being past prime will not and cannot carry the team, budinger we dont know his ceiling yet so he maybe just a role player

we might get 2 first round picks(if morey doesnt trade them) and hoep they pan out (very rare you find a gem at 15-20)

 

in order to get a superstar like that you must trade now brooks and landry and even then you are stuck with bosh (if he resigns) and i dont see any 2/3 superstar swingmen that are on trade block. (iggy good but not superstar)

 

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Somehow pull this off!

Starting 5
PG: Brooks
SG: Iggy
SF: Ariza/Batier
PF: Bosh
C: Yao

Run n Gun Lineup
PG: Brooks
SG: Iggy
SF: Ariza
PF: Scola/Landry
C: Bosh

 

I see some chemistry between them!! :grin: :grin: :grin:

 

1. Health
2. Yao's return
3. an efficient, volume scorer who can score in various ways and demands attention from the opposing team's defense
4. a bit of luck

The Rockets have everything else they need - the right role players, depth, coach, chemistry.

 

It's a killer lineup, but how do you pull this off without losing any of those players to acquire Iggy and Bosh? And where does the money come from? Seems like a pipe dream.

 

In order for a championship run, the Rockets really need a true superstar. A player that can take this team on his back and just take over. But since superstars are rare in this league and isn't easy to get, a few all star talent will do too.

A healthy Yao would help a lot but we just cannot rely on him and cannot continue to rely on Yao anymore. It would help this team a lot by having a healthy Yao but in order for this team to win a championship, Yao shouldn't be the number 1 priority. Having Yao is the number 1 priority has back fired on this team too many times. The what if Yao was healthy question. But even when he was healthy, he still cannot hang with the stronger and more athletic gifted big men in the league.

What this team need is probably more than one star talent. The Tmac era is done with and Yao era is basically done with also. The longer this team continues to rely on Yao as the cornerstone, the longer this team wouldn't taste the finals. Though Yao create havoc in the paint, teams are starting to figure out ways to stop him. And it has been working very effectively.

The Rockets are currently on a good road with a roster full of great role players. Not good but GREAT role players. The Rockets cannot afford to waste this time to try to built around Yao anymore. Hopefully the Rockets can learn from the past that this doesn't work before, and it won't work now.

Hopefully the current team we have now can attract superstars to come to Houston. I know a lot of superstars out there would love to play with a group of good hard working, unselfish players. But hopefully Morey will understand that by having a healthy Yao will help a lot, but relying on him would probably be a bad idea. Morey should know that by just having Yao and surround him with great role players is certainly not enough to win championships. Championship calibers teams has great superstar that can play at a high level. Those teams can rely on their stars to play big down the stretch. Yao is a good center indeed, but he cannot carry a team by himself, let along in the playoffs. He has a hard time boxing out strong, long, athletic guys. When teams put long athletic players to front him, the Rockets offense becomes stagnant. He is not good enough to carry the load by himself. His endurance stop him from being effective late in intensive games.

Having Yao is a luxury. He is a big center with a sweet touch and talented for his size. But his physical incapability keeps him from playing at an intense level for 48 minutes. Plus Yao is unable to score down the stretch when we need him to. When the game gets intense, teams would just front him, causing him to stand in the paint longer than 3 secs, the Rockets offense become stagnant because they would take most of the shot clock just waiting for Yao to get into position, and when Yao does receive the ball, he forces it up due to frustration. Yao just has too many weaknesses to lead this team.

The star player for a championship team should not have too many weaknesses. Look at Kobe last season. He is basically flawless. Tim Duncan plays at a high level and he depends on his high IQ to carry his team. Duncan too has few weaknesses. Shaq during his prime days were just down right dominant. Shaq was just unstoppable. He would get into position whenever he wanted to. When teams front him, the Lakers would just lob up the ball and he would catch and dunk it. Dwayne Wade was just as dominant as Kobe. He can single handedly take over games.

So in order for the Rockets to win or even come close to a championship, we need to build around a guy that is great. A player that is dominant overall and is basically flawless. A player with many flaws like Yao, other teams would easily exploit them in a best out of 7 games series. So in order to even have a chance at the finals or even getting there, the Rockets would need a true superstar player. Right now, our current roster does not have anyone close to that level. Not even Yao when healthy is close to being a superstar. Why is he not a superstar? Well because he is just not good enough. His physical in-capabilities limit him. Other teams can easily exploit his weakness and attack him from there. Though his fingerprint might be all over the game with his scoring and rebounding and protecting the paint, he just cannot take over games. Sure he made game winning plays from here to there but every all star player can do so also.

Yao is similar to Pau Gasol for example. When Pau was on the Grizzlies, the Grizzlies were never considered a playoff contending team. Why? Because Pau was their best player. So the Grizzlies knew they weren't going anywhere with Gasol so they traded him to the Lakers. Well when Pau went to the Lakers, the Lakers become an instant contenders because Pau was their 2nd best player, which push Odom down to the 3rd best player and we all know Kobe is their number 1 player. The reason why they won a championship? Because their best player Kobe Bryant is a true superstar. Kobe is indeed very dominant. He is flawless. He had an all star in Gasol to back him up. But if Gasol is the best player, no matter what they throw around him, his team would never succeed.

Well same with Yao. No matter what we put around him, as long as he is still our best player, the Rockets will never go anywhere far. Yao needs to be the 2nd or 3rd option on a team in order to succeed. If he is the number 1 option like years ago when Tmac wanted to deferred to Yao, the Rockets were unsuccessful. If the Rockets believe that they can win big with Yao as the best guy on this team, it will end with a big disappointment and the question "WHAT IF" comes back up. Yao isn't good enough to lead a team as the main guy. He is good enough to be the 2nd or 3rd option on a championship team though. But another thing is that do the Rockets really want to invest in Yao after all the seasons of disappointment and set back because of his injuries? Yao's injuries had broken so many hearts in Houston year in and year out. The bad thing is, his injuries are becoming a once a year thing.

Hopefully the Rockets can learn from the past. Right now, the Rockets probably have the best role players in the NBA. Any superstar that is smart would come to Houston to play with these guys. But guys like Lebron wants to go to place with lots of money and media to surround him. Hopefully Morey can pull the right strings to bring a new guy to town and the Rockets can successfully stock up around him. Plus any team that has Yao as the 3rd option is deep enough to take on anyone. But that depends on Morey and his magic.

 

even with iggy, we still wouldn't be contenders unless Yao comes back avg. 25 -10 which probably won't happen. we need a dominant Yao, scolandry, ariza and battier + a perimeter scorer to go along with them and a SG, AB and Lowry are on the border line.

 

tracy mcgrady

 

No. I'm saying we lack talent. It doesn't have to be Lebron or Kobe.

For example, if we get Bosh and by some stroke of amazing luck get John Wall in the draft, I'd chalk that up as enough talent. Or if we give NO the motherload for CP3, and then reload our depth through Morey's genius, that would also be enough talent for my taste. Talent in general does not imply any particular player.

So we're better than teams without the two best players in the NBA. Okay...

Btw, we also stack up pretty well vs the Hakeem-less 94 championship team.

Brooks/Lowry >> Kenny "I have the worst handles for a PG ever" Smith/rookie Cassell
Hayes > Hakeem's nonexistent backup since he's Hakeem
Scolandry >= Thorpe/Harrera(or wash if you want)
Battier =/= young Horry
Ariza < Mad Max

What are you trying to prove here!?