If Shane was simply a Mo Evans or Bogans or Ariza, would Adelman have played him 35 mpg when he had Bonzi? I mean, Adelman has had some success with Bonzi in the past, so if Shane was just another ho hum defensive player, why did he get so many more minutes? Apparently, our coach thinks more highly of him than that. McGrady and Gay could be nice on the offensive end. Rudy Gay is a dynamic transition player, so if nothing else we should benefit in terms of fast break points (we're still near the bottom of the league). I do think both T-Mac and Gay are slow defensively for their respective positions, and neither makes up for it with exceptional effort or IQ on that end. That would hurt us quite a lot on defense, especially if we don't have a shot-blocking interior presence (and without Yao, that would be an issue for much of the game). Really, for both Gay and McGrady to get significant playing time on the court together and not get torched defensively, Gay would have to play more minutes at PF. And that takes away playing time from the effective Scola/Landry combination. I think Battier's defensive versatility and veteran leadership makes him a better fit for our team right now. Battier never misses a game, and even when his offense isn't there he'll always make a solid contribution on the defensive end. Of course, you lose in some areas, and win in others with either player. Oh, and you really put too much value on the 8th pick. You mentioned some other teams that traded a lottery pick for a All-star caliber players. But those were top-5 picks, if I'm not mistaken. Hey, if we had a top 5 pick, we would have taken Brandon Roy. Would that work for you? We had the 8th pick, and historically you can see the track record of what teams got out of their 8th pick. Completely hit and miss. And you may want to review what every lottery team has gotten out of their 2006 picks after nearly 2 seasons. The Rockets are getting more from Shane Battier than any other team is getting out of their picks, save Portland. That sounds pretty good to me. Edit: I see that Charlotte actually traded their number 8 pick last year for Jason Richardson. Though, I have to wonder how good Richardson really is if the Bobcats effectively "drafted" him this season and are no better than they were a year ago.
Shane was a good fit and the perfect role player but Rudy Gay has shown alot of promise. I feel the same way about the trade as i felt when it happened. Gay would have really helped out our inability to score but Battier helps alot on defense. I thought Battier would be better for a few years and then Gay would eventually become so good offensively that it made up for Battier's defense. I think Battier still has the bigger affect on a game. I just think we worry about defense players way too much for a team that has shown they are already on an elite level defensively. With that in mind i wouldn't mind trading Shane if we could get an atheletic scoring SG who can also play the 3 along side Tracy.
i was a fan of the trade from the beginning but i admit to wavering when we were struggling early in the season and gay was putting up 20 a night. that win-streak quickly reminded me how valuable battier is and i thought it would put an end to threads like this. team basketball, team defense, intelligence, and hustle. that's what wins you ball games and that's what he has in spades. battier plays winning basketball and makes sure his teammates do as well. he's a leader on defense and in the locker room and while he's not an all-star he's probably more valuable then a fringe star like gay. certainly on a team like the rockets it's not even close. it's no coincidence that the grizzlies went from a consistently competitive 50-win team with battier to a joke of a franchise immediately after trading him. comparing him to posey is just laughably bad.
If the Hawks drafted Deron Williams, we would've been in the mother****ing WCF last year. Playing these what-if games aren't good for your health man. Save yourself some white hairs.
Put it this way. Battier production on defense if far beyond what Gay production is on offense there for Battier being the better over all player. Battier intangibles are far beyond Gay that its not even close. Battier is resposible for more team rebounds and team possesions. Battier is a more efficient shooter. Stat sheet lie on who is the better team player. Gasol+Miller+Battier won 50+ games and made the playoffs. Gasol+Miller+Gay is not even a playoff team.
Wow... Is Battier better than Posey? Yes. A lot better. You always need a guy like Shane, and who is anywhere near as as good as him at what he does?? He goes from Memphis (winning 50 games) to Houston (winning 50 games). And Memphis with Gay inserted straight up for Battier drop from a tough defensive unit to an also-ran... The Grizzlies didn't win a playoff game with Battier? It's ok - we did! How many playoff games have the Grizzlies PLAYED with Gay? Fact is, basketball is all about scoring more points than your opponent. If they can't score too many, then you don't need to either - and Battier is an absolute defensive anchor (has been since his Duke days) and is not a liability on the offensive end (he's a career 10ppg player - which means he hits his open shots). He goes from one team to another and repeats his dominance defensively! For the future? Well, last year was the 'future' from the trade standpoint, and we were much better, we're great this year, and Battier has 3-4 real good years left in him! Then we can just pick up Gay in free agency if we want him - or he might pan out to be the next JRich (Juan Nothing)
Memphis fall from the playoffd had more to do with firing the czar of the telestrator, fratello, and pau missing the first 30 something games than anything else. People talk about shane being better than posey, in what way? They are clones in every sense of the word. Not to mention, Posey was on the Grizz the same yr they made the playoffs and he has a ring in which he was a vital part. I do see shanes value, but because adelman plays him so much is more about the back up options. When Bonzi was here, his minutes were down because of a biable backup. People always seem to be shortsighted when looking at our shortcomings. The thing about the whole ordeal is Gay is getting better and shane isn't . That's not even debatable.
02-29-08 Rockets 116, Grizzlies 95 Rudy Gay - 11pts on 5-16, 5rebs, 2blks Shane Battier - 13pts on 5-8, 7rebs, 4blks Rudy Gay = LOCKED DOWN 12-05-07 Rockets 105, Grizzlies 92 Rudy Gay - 17pts on 8-20, 10rebs, 1blk Shane Battier - 13pts on 5-9, 3rebs, 3blks Rudy Gay = LOCKED DOWN Battier's comments after each game: "In before the lock. Or what I like to say, IBTL."
I thought it was a terrible trade when we made it, but Shane is the glue for our D. He blocks some shots, gets key rebounds and steals. I don't think we have many above avg defenders yet we are so good defensively. I think shane battier is a big reason for that.
This a joke right? I mean there are merits to a debate about Battier v Gay, but this statement is just truly ridiculous. You're comparing Shane to 3 terrible terrible players. I don't even see how Shane's game is similar to any of those three! You're saying a player like Shane (you know, one asked to join the US team) can be pulled off the scrap heap? I think your credibility is shot with a comment like that... And as it has been said ad nauseum by this point not just in this thread...its not a fair to play the "what if" we would've taken Gay game, because we were never going to take Gay. We had the opportunity to, but he was not going to be our choice. It's like saying well instead of taking Luther Head at 24 in the 05 draft, imagine if we had been smart and taken Monta Ellis instead. Ellis wasn't taken until 40, thus we should've picked him! The bottom line is, that logic doesn't make sense - we had the opportunity to take Gay, but we weren't going to. So to make a true comparison of what that trade did for us, you should compare Battier's impact to the Rockets v Thabo Sefelosha's impact to us (since he was the player we would've picked)
ill take shane over gay anyday and wouldnt think twice about pulling that deal again.. Shane is a huge reason for our recent success, i dont think we would be nearly as good with Rgay
The one thing I was pissed about the trade was that we didn't get more out of the Grizzlies, like a future first round pick from them. It would have been a high pick, thereby recouping the pick we gave them to draft Gay. Lamenting about Gay is an exercise of futility, he would not have been the promising young star you guys are lamenting about if Rockets kept pick and used it on him instead of Thabo...he would have struggled to fit beside TMac, struggle to become a 3pt shooter because those shots are readily available here but he's not a steady shooter, and get lost sometimes in the motion. You guys would prolly be ragging on him ala Luther Head for his faults if he became a Rocket. Shane is one of the best glue guys around, and those are as valuable as your star players. And whoever mentioned Devean George as the same as Shane needs to watch the NBA more, that tells me they just watch it in passing.
Truth is, the rox have been top 5 defensively every yr while jvg was coach. I mean david wesley, howard, and barry were on those teams. Even when the rox had major injuries before shane they were a very good defensive team. So I really don't know how much that flies. Someone mentioned about over valued #8 pick. Go and look at the players drafted with that pick. Tracy was around there, caron,amare,pierce,dirk, andree miller, to name a few. U could have a all star squad of players taken @ 8. Why? Usually gms pick a guy there that had production, huge upside that needs to grow a little. I'm happy with the team, I just know after or during the playoffs we're going to talk about the 3rd scorer again. Or how we don't get easy baskets or not finishing plays. We had that guy. I don't care, but as a 21 yr old when u can shoot 49%, 7 rebs, and 19ppg on a sorry team, that tells me ur playing in the flow and has good shot selection. That can be used on any team.
i think leggibeez is still the effects from shane's suckiness in the playoffs last yr. shane has been PHENOMENAL this yr. but he better step it up in the playoffs. he was a ghost like yr as usual in the playoffs. ever since he was in memphis, this dude has never shown up in the playoffs for one bit. that's my only gripe about him. hopefully he'll do better this yr.
i understand what you mean leegibeez. even if we had yao healthy, i'm sure we'll encounter a situation where a CONSISTENT 3rd scorer would be great. remember, if gay plays with tmac and yao, dude would not be guarded by the best defender (he would have a field day). remember, he's shooting 46%. there is no way he cannot get better. i expect him to be a perennial all-star. and had he played under JVG, you never know what kind of defensive player he will be. he has the raw talent like tmac to be a beast defensively. by playing with tmac and yao, he probably would learn early on that the only way he'll get a lot of minutes is if he plays defense. and JVG would make sure of that. but right now, we need shane. if tmac was fully healthy like he as in 04-05, i don't think we do. that tmac could guard the best player on the opposing team for 2-3 quarters (usually he guarded them in the 4th). and i think people do over-value shane. james posey does the same things as shane but with a better shot. doc rivers said posey, along with KG, are the people that make their defense the best in the L. he brought toughness to the heat during their championship year. so guys like that are a dime in a dozen, but again, we don't know how gay will develop if he had played with us. all you can do is hope gay will do well and have a bright career, like you would want any young talent.
The more we pluck away our defensive assets the worst our defense will get and believe me with Adelman over time our defense will eventuall fade away.
Rockets under coach RA don't need a third scorer now. 4-6 guys other than Yao and TMac are capable to score 15 points a game now. It's not like under coach JVG who didn't have enough players can score. JVG didn't have Scolandry, Head disappeared in playoff, Rafer was shoot low % open shot and Bonzi was crying. JVG team disperately needed a 3rd scorer. But not now.
