'Fraid not son... my original argument was that BMW's repairs are expensive - period. Then you came along with a "within 50,000 miles warranty" clause. Some of us drive our cars for more than 50,000 miles (I know, absurd). To which I basically added that most repairs that occur during that timeframe are warrantable repairs and are repairs that can be covered by many manufacturers. BMW's repair costs are high and if you think paying the BMW premium is worth the wiper blades, go for it. I stick by my statement. Cake, meal, *burp*...
That's the way you make American cars better - make them take notice. Ford used to sell Tauruses and Escorts because people wanted to buy American... not because they wanted to buy a good vehicle. Ford is trying to improve now because they know they have a financial and image problem. Whether they do it or not, who knows, but it's about time people support good car manufacturers and not car manufacturers based upon where they're located. As for me, I've owned Japanese cars all my life. And I'll continue owning a Toyota/Lexus, Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti until their reliability takes a nosedive across the board (which Nissan is pushing). Right now my next car will undoubtedly be a Honda or Toyota... but that's hopefully another 70-80,000 miles away at least. Buick has for years made a very reliable car, generally speaking. But their designers seem to cater to the 80 year olds...
And I gave mine. It sure touched someone's nerve. Inferiority complex anyone? Funny how you turned the "Ford Sucks" comment to war on American cars. Where did I say American cars are bad? I said Ford sucks, which it does. I gave them credit for their trucks. Has it ever occured to you that there is more to a car then punching the pedal and going fast in a STARIGHT line? How about style, handling, ride quality, mateiral quality? You sure talk about money a lot. For this many less...ble bla.... I for one, and most other people I know would gladly spend a little extra for better returns. "for 5+ grand less then slap on some bolt-ons and blow them all off the track." = Typical Ricer boy thinking. You can take any car and slap on stuff and make it fast. Duh! I could have turboed my 350Z to excess of 500 hp+ No thanks! I like stock cars. Easier to trade them for newer cars every few years. It is a fact that Mustangs with their higher cylinders had a hard time keeping up with the 4 cylinder ones. I am talking stock cars. Both s2000 and 350Z were NA engines . The Mustang that would pull ahead was special edition, supercharged, or the Cobra. And since you like talking price, Cobra will land you around $40k. And this was just staright line performance which is the only thing non-Cobra could compete in. Dont even bring handling, curves, quality, and looks into the equation because then it just gets beyond silly for Ford. Again, stock Cobra with a price tag of about $40k was an exception. You didnt strike any cord. And I could care less about foreign cars. I am an American and I love cars. But I love good cars, and I hate bad cars. I will say it here or anywhere that Corvette is one of the best cars you can get performance wise for the dollar, and if you are looking at a Z06..wow you get 911 Turbo performance for less than half the price. Last I checked it was an American car. Boy, I sure do hate American cars...*laugh* In fact, coupld of years ago, before pre-ordering my 350Z, I was looking at 3 cars. Corvette Z06, E46 M3, and 350Z. My first choice was the Z06. But almost all the dealership i went to around my place didnt take me seriously because I was so young. They would be willing to let me test drive the regular Corvette but Z06 was off limits. I guess I didnt fit their demographic customer model. Dealership experience turned me off. Not the car. Its a beautiful piece of machine and I will own it in future. I test drove the E46 and fell in love with it. Eventually stayed away from it because there were manufacturing issues with the engines. Engines were blowing up and at the time BMW was not taking reponsibilty for it. 350Z was the most logical choice because of the OVERALL experience. Nice overall perofrmance numbers, Solid VQ engine, and a wonderful design. Since I was the first one to recieve the 350Z in Northeast area when they came out, I had a blast with it. One of my best experiences! Once again, nice tactic of turning this into American cars vs Foreign cars. I said Ford sucks and I will stick to it. If anything, I think I struck a cord somewhere. Someone got caught driving a Ford with their pants down. Before you go around making an @ss out of yourself, let me just say that the rental I got had 34 miles on it and it had to be towed. I dont need to explain any further. This coming from a Ford owner. The IRONY here is just WOW WOW WOW. That tells me how little you know about cars. Maybe if you got out a little instead of spending hours on virtual world of Warcraft .... (would also explain your obsession of giving random names to people) American muscle cars American muscle cars...you are sounding like a broken nationalistic record. There is more to car than straight line performance. My god, how short-sighted can you be? Taking the raw numbers while COMPLETELY ignoring the Weight.?!?! Ever heard of power/weight ratio?? Look it up sometime. Its one of the most lightweight cars around. Superb HANDLING, speed, and looks. Midengine *drool* For you and if anyone else who is interested in some numbers.... http://www.sandsmuseum.com/cars/elise/thecar/performance/performance.html Lotus Elise or a Ford? Let me think here for a nanosecond. I think I will go with the Elise. But if you give me a Ford for free I will take it. Only to sell it to you and get something better. Once again. I didnt say I dont like American cars. I said I dont like FORD, which just happens to be American. I call crap a "crap' I dont know how else to put it. I am an American and I dont mind saying Ford sucks.
Thank you!! If you want Ford to improve and take back the marketshare, show tough love. Dont buy their products and make them take notice so that they can improve their products. Once they improve, go buy, not one, but 2 Fords!! Encourage them. Guys like Supernut think they are being nationalistic but end up hurting the very purpose they are trying to serve. Sheesh....
Surfguy, If you dont mind adding in a couple of ks, DO look at the new Acura TL. One of the best cars for the money. Voice activated navigation control, Bluetooth tech, very nice looks and styling... If you get a used one with just couple k miles on it, you should be able to get it below 30k.
BTW, there is a car club here in the Dallas area for the elite of cars. When I say elite, I mean super car high end : Lambos, Ferraris, Porsche, etc. go to tracks and race the twisties. I was chatting with a guy who frequents the races. There's this one guy there that owns I believe at least 1 or 2 Lambos and are you ready? A mod'ed Mazda Miata. When asked which one he loved to drive for the sheer enjoyment of it... he picked the Miata. Why? Very few cars had the balance or handling it does. Get an Accord or Camry.
the thread starter should make a poll now of the top 6 or 7 selections of his and let everyone vote. ************************* then maybe he could go buy the winner and everyone here could each pitch in a hundred dollars or something.
LOL about the agitation over "american muscle cars". Because when performance really counts, all you really need to do is go in a straight line. Heh. Any self-respecting man who calls himself a real driver knows that the real fun of driving a sports car comes from hugging curves at high speeds. Let me see your "good old fashioned muscle ford" compete with a lowly Jetta on a curvy track sometime.
Some of those Mod'ed Miata's are beasts on the track. I had my first MINI at Texas world speedway at an open trackday and after chasing a Boxster S around the track for 4 laps with the driver being unable to lose me (he'd pull away on the straights and I'd catch him again in the curves) he lost control going through the S curves too fast and spun out. He approached me later in the paddock area and wanted a ride. I saw him again a few track days later (months later, those track days are expensive) and he was driving a new MINI. Sucker still couldn't keep up with me so I'm assuming I knew the track better than him or I'm just a better driver. Straight line power is over rated. Take some curves at 110 and still on the gas then get back to me.
Surfguy my final vote on this subject is a 2006 Accord -- just a great looking - worry free car. ...and there is always the station wagon if you're worried about space for the dogs.
