Well I refuse the major physical health problem cause...it's still killing with no intention to save the baby...
That is the point. If it will never medically happen then what is the harm in having the language in the bill?
All I can say to that is - wow....I find it hard to believe that anyone would kill their child in order to prevent a possible stroke.
The report on the bill that just passed (in the Chronicle) specifically says (I am quoting) "the law contains no exception to protect the health of the mother..."
It probably would have, since I covered what Max wanted a while ago and because it is probably useless to argue with twhy.
So, you're OK with telling a mother (if this happened to come up...please don't respond with it wouldn't happen) she has to die or have significant health problems if she had her baby. I'd hate to be your wife.
If my OB called me today and said that there was a significant chance of my wife having a stroke if she took Aidan to term, I would fully support my wife if she decided to abort.
Because it is killing the baby with no intention to save its life...regardless of if it might need it or not...when we've made it clear that it couldn't happen, then the language is filler and doesn't need to be there because it provides for a ton of wiggle room...
Not if mental illnesses are excluded. MadMax's evidence specifically dealt with MENTAL health problems and I am talking about physical ones.
Please read the stories of the 5 women below... MRS. LINE: My name is Mary Dorothy Line. My husband, Bill, and I are honored to be here today to speak for the many women and families who have also come forward to tell their stories in opposition to this terrible legislation. Last April we were overjoyed to find out that I was pregnant with our first child. Nineteen weeks into my pregnancy, an ultrasound indicated that there was something wrong with our baby. The doctor diagnosed a condition called hydrocephalus. Every person's head contains fluid to protect and cushion the brain. But if there is too much fluid, the brain cannot develop. As practicing Catholics, when we have problems and worries, we turn to prayer. As we waited to find our more from the doctors, our whole family prayed together. My husband and I were very scared, but we are strong people and believe that God would not give us a problem if we couldn't handle it. This was our baby. Everything would be fine. We never thought about abortion. But the diagnosis was as bad as it could be. Our little boy had a very advanced textbook case of hydrocephaly. All the doctors told us there was no hope. We asked about in utero surgery, about shunts to remove the fluid, but there was absolutely nothing we could do. I cannot express the pain we still feel. This was our precious little baby, and he was being taken from us before we even had him. This was not our choice, for not only was our son going to die, but the complications of the pregnancy put my health in danger, as well. If I carried to term, he might die in utero, and the resulting toxins could cause a hemorrhage and possibly a hysterectomy. The hydrocephaly also meant that a natural labor risked rupturing my cervix and my uterus. Several specialists recommended that we terminate the pregnancy. I thank God every day that I had this safe medical option available to me, especially now that I am pregnant again and expecting a baby in September. I pray every day, I really do, that this will never happen to anyone else. But it will. Those of us unfortunate enough to have to live this nightmare need a procedure that will give us hope for the future. The people who promoted this bill do not understand the real issues. It is about women's health, it's not about abortion, and certainly not choice. These decisions belong to families and their doctors, not the government. MRS. COSTELLO: My name is Coreen Costello. I found out when I was seven months pregnant that my daughter was dying. She was dying inside my womb. The complications that she had posed severe health risks to me. One of the conditions she had was polyhydramnia, where the amniotic fluid puddles into the uterus. I had over nine pounds of excess amniotic fluid. My daughter's body was rigid and it was stuck in a position that was as if she was doing a swan dive inside my womb. Her head and -- the back of her feet were touching the back of her head at the top my uterus. There was no way to deliver her. My husband and I have always been extremely opposed to abortion. We consider ourselves very, very much pro-life, conservative Republicans. For us, terminating this pregnancy was not an option. For three weeks we attempted to turn my daughter so that I could deliver her vaginally and naturally. We had one hope, and that was that we would be able to hold our daughter alive for possibly an hour, maybe two. Over the three weeks that we carried her we realized that that was not a possibility. She was dying and she would likely not survive any labor and there was no way I could deliver her. We had her baptized in utero. We named her Katherine Grace. We then realized that our only safe option was the procedure that is being outlawed -- is being attempted to be outlawed. I am so grateful because today I am standing here before you pregnant again with a healthy child. I have two children. I have my health. I don't know how to tell you how important that is. This was such a tragedy, such a personal family tragedy. Our daughter will always be a part of our lives. There will always be someone missing in our family, and that's Katherine Grace. But I am so grateful for the ability to be able to go on and enjoy the two children that I do have, to be with my husband, to be with my family, and to be here today. And that's what this is about. This is not about choice. We made a very different choice than what we ended up having to have. This is not about abortion, and it's not about choice. It's a medical issue. We have been telling them for a long time and a lot of people haven't listened. But this is the truth, and this is what happened to us. And as painful as it is, we are all here to share that with you. MRS. WATTS: Hi, my name is Tammy Watts. I live in Tempe, Arizona. My story is not so different from everyone else's. I have the heartache, I have the same tragic story. I have the loss in my heart, as does my husband and the rest of my family and friends. The fact is this: I would have given my life and traded placed with my daughter, Mackenzie. And in fact, with my pastor, that is exactly what I prayed for for the three days we tried desperately to find something that could cure her. You simply look for a magic wand and it's not there. I am so thankful to our doctors, who were able to perform this very safe medical procedure, save our health, save our families. This is my daughter Mackenzie's handprints and footprints. This is something that is very special to us, and is something that we would not have if we did not have this very safe procedure. MRS. STELLA: My name is Vikki Stella, and I'm from Chicago, Illinois. My story is basically the same thing. We're like a family now. And at 32 weeks I found out that my son wasn't growing properly, and when everything was all done and said and the ultrasounds were in and I had the answer, I found out my son had nine major anomalies, one including no brain. It did not show up on the amnio because it was a closed neural tube defect, so those things don't show up. That's for genetic research. And I miss my son. But the one part I want to stress is I needed this for health reasons. I'm a diabetic. Other procedures would not have been what I needed. I don't heal as well as other people, so other procedures just were not the answer. I could have gone on and maybe tried to give birth to a child that would not live. I didn't make the decision for my child to die; God made the decision for my child to die. I had to make the decision to take him off life support. Mrs. Claudia Ades: Much like everyone else -- we've all had similar circumstances -- I was six months pregnant, 26 weeks into my pregnancy and happier than I had ever been in my entire life when, in a routine ultrasound, we found out that there was something terribly wrong with our son. He had fluid in his brain that was keeping his brain from developing. He had a hole in his heart, a hole between the chambers of his heart so that there was no normal blood flow. He had -- I won't go on with the details, but horrible, horrible anomalies, and he stood no chance of survival. It was something -- it was a chromosomal abnormality, called Trisomy-13. It was actually the same condition that Tammy Watts's baby had. Again, like everyone else, we begged for a cardiologist or a neurosurgeon or someone that could fix my baby's brain or the hole in his heart. And when we got the news -- I say this for the people that say that we don't care and for the people who say we don't want our children, and for the people that say we have no spirit or no soul or no religion. My husband and I are Jewish and we got the news on Rosh Hashana. And when we finally had the procedure, the third day of this grueling procedure, it was Yom Kippur, the holiest day of the Jewish year. And Yom Kippur is the day that you mourn those that have passed, and it's the day that you pray that God will inscribe them in the Book of Life. We'll forever, and for the past four years and forever we will mourn our son. We are very -- since that pregnancy, unfortunately lost five more, but we are very blessed that in July we're going to adopt a baby and we're going to be parents, and we're going to have the child we so desperately wanted. And we are all here, my husband, myself and all of the other people standing behind me, we are all here as we have been for months, fighting in Congress. I just actually came back with Mary Dorothy from Sacramento, where we were testifying, where it is now in the State of California. And we are all here for the women that follow us, because all women deserve the finest medical care that exists. And we are the blessed ones and we want that for them.
It doesn't pertain to a matter of death... it pertains to a matter of not killing a child... and I'm pretty sure that my wife would be of the same view... My grandma couldn't have any more children after she had my mom, and I'm glad she didn'tdecide to abort my mom...
I’m far from an expert on partial birth abortions, but in my opinion many who are opposed to the procedure are using inaccurate information to back their opinions. The term “partial birth” is inaccurate – in the vast majority of late-term abortions the fetus would not survive if delivered they would be extremely premature. The percentage of women having late- term abortions simply because they do not want to have a child is very low. Stricter evaluations of women coming in to receive LT abortions could stop those who simply no longer want the child and is a much better course to take. I feel many of you are blindly following the religious rights viewpoint on the issue, which is severely flawed. Personally I am very opposed to abortions, but I will never go and try to influence other people with my thoughts on the issue. The title of this thread “what can you not understand” applies to how I feel about those who use horrid imagery, terror tactics, and outright lies to advance a political agenda. How can they not understand that are a true incarnation of evil? Those who started this movement to end LT abortions did not do this because of their love for all God’s creations they did it to get their foot in the door to ending all abortions. They have already switched their focus to RU-486, which is probably the safest way to have an abortion. The right to lifers who stand in front of abortion clinics terrorizing women with their giant posters of the worst case scenario for abortions are some of the most sickening disturbed people you will ever come across. It is also no surprise that they are the greatest threat for domestic terrorism in this country and are completely overlooked by those in power in the United States government.
So, you're OK with that, telling a mother she'd have to die or suffer significant physical injury. Answer the damn question.
