You spurs partisans make me laugh. Do you know that the only reason why the Spurs are not playing in New Orleans/Louisville/Memphis right now is because of the tanking job to get Duncan? I mean it was only one of the (if not the)largest one season won-lost swing in NBA History. And I'm sure Robinson's back hurt so much, he couldn't come back, don't want to rush the "MVP". Well, guess what. Unless the Spurs continue tanking to get Lebron James or other future stars, they will never taste an asterisk championship like they did in 99. San Antonio is a one-horse, one-team town that no free agent would ever play in. Sorry, but it's true, the Spurs aren't exactly the Green Bay Packers as far as mystique goes. . No wonder they have to import Emanuel Ginobli, whoever the hell he is. Yeah, sure, he's going to be great even though you've never seen him play, he's the Argentinian Kendall Gill. (Rockets fans are as bad, if not worse, about Nachbar, I admit). I know I am provoking a huge pro-spurs flame response. Whatever, if the spurs win another championship in the next 10 years, I am wrong and will admit that. But they won't and I am confident about that. So go ahead, sign Malik Rose, hell, go ahead and pick up Speedy Claxton too. When I see Jermaine O'Neal on MTV Cribs talking about his phat new pad in Bexar County, I will believe the Spurs are anything more than the Utah Jazz South.
Goddammit, I'm sick of this sh*t. Time for the Spurs hate to come to the forefront. Cat, you're right, we're not objective fans. We're Rockets fans! This may be the NBA dish forum, but its on the mother****ing ROCKETS BBS!!! What the hell did you expect! We dont give a **** about the defensive attributes of Bruce Bowen or Duncan's lack of help! Did you even see what happened to Jenna?!! Come on man, you keep arguing points like all of a sudden we're going to change. Well, we're NOT! We hate those boring, pansy ass, old, non-jumping, overrated, undercoached, Hakeem punked, Shaq punked, Kobe punked, bastards from down I-10, and that ain't changing anytime soon! So, get as mad and frustrated as you want. Say its unfair. Call us unobjective (Hell, thats a compliment to Rocket fans like me). Hell, tell us we don't know sh*t about NBA basketball. Then, go to the Sacramento board and preach the greatness of the Lakers. We don't care. Were the ****ing best damn fans in the world! We're Rocket fans, and we will be to the grave! All other teams and their fans can kiss our ASS! And no matter what, the sorry ass Spurs will always be looking up to us. Spur haters, REPRESENT!
Here we go again, all childish bluster and no substance. The Rockets, who haven't done jack recently are better than the Spurs who have won a title and made the playoffs every friggin' season in the last 5 years. The Spurs did not tank to land Duncan. And, of course, a Rockets fan who chides any other team for 'tanking' should have their head examined. Yeah, Emmanuel Ginobili sucks because he has been the top player in the best league in Europe and is well known by NBA scouts, yet some guy from China who has been honing his skills against that great Chinese talent and who less people in the NBA world have seen play is better. Personally I have no hate for the Rockets. Some here seem to be taking their notion of a non-existent rivalry just a little bit too seriously. Especially when the discussion diverts from basketball discussion into smack about the cities the franchises are based in.
It's amazing how spoiled some of you are. You can't give the Spurs credit for anything. I've mentioned it before, but when we signed Scottie Pippen in 1999, there was no talk whatsoever that the championship would be diminished because the regular season had less games. Everyone was as exctied as ever. The "asterisk" talk didn't start until after a team you didn't like won. I would expect more from a group that constantly tells me to "forget game 6" because the "rest of the world has", or something to that effect. Remember the two strike-shortened seasons in the 1980's in the NFL? The NFL regular season is much more important than that of the NBA... when's the last time you've heard the 1982 Redskins called "asterisk champions"? The rest of the league has moved on. They give the Spurs credit for winning a championship. The only fans still hanging onto the asterisk garbage are the Rockets and Lakers fans jealous of their rivals for finally winning. Until you can show me some documented links (besides the one from Phil Jackass, who wasn't coaching) where you or someone else called the 99 season "asterisked" before the season began, then let's talk. Otherwise, you really look like a sore loser. San Antonio is a one-horse, one-team town that no free agent would ever play in. If this were true... wouldn't someone like the MVP of the entire league leave to play in Orlando, Florida with Grant Hill and Tracy McGrady at the first opportunity? Do you know that the only reason why the Spurs are not playing in New Orleans/Louisville/Memphis right now is because of the tanking job to get Duncan? Do you know that the only reason we have Yao Ming is because we held out Steve and Cuttino from the last several games to get to that 5th lottery spot?
The houston tanking is just as lame, but not nearly as extreme. They were not a 50 win team the year before. And they will not likely be a 50 win team the year after. As for the asterisk, yes that was a bit of a cheap shot, fine. You are right about people having moved on, as in forgotten, the 99 spurs, who were just good enough to coincide with a low water mark during NBA history (I would say the same thign about the 94 rockets if they hadn't repeated). And Duncan, even if he does stay (He didn't exactly sign a long term deal last time did he?), he is the exception that proves the rule. HE obviously doesn't give a damn about cars or nightlife or clubs or whatever, so San Antonio is all right by him. Well, most NBA stars are a little different in that regard. So next time there is an incredibly talented, socially withdrawn superstar from a small town in the Virgin Islands, I will pencil in SA as a contender for his services.
Oh, I get it. It's ok for a 45 win team the season before to tank, but not a 50. That last paragraph was the most ridiculous thing I've ever read on this BBS. Yeah, Duncan's classier than most NBA players, and actually can speak complete sentences. Because he's not some gun-carrying punk talking in ebonics like Allen Iverson, he's socially withdrawn and doesn't care about nightlife? There have been interviews with other Spurs teammates (including his friends), and they all say that he's just like everyone else in non-basketball (social) situations. Just because you don't like San Antonio doesn't mean everyone else doesn't. Derek Anderson had many more lucrative offers from other teams, before signing for the 2.25M in San Antone. Personally, San Antonio is my favorite city in the US to visit. There's a lot of stuff to do, especially near the Riverwalk. Duncan signed his three year deal so that he could see the Spurs long-term plan before committing. It had nothing to do with the city. Chris Webber resigned in Sacramento, a town with less than SA. In fact, the only other team he really came close to leaving for was SA itself. There's a few NBA players that just want to live in Hollywood or New York and go to clubs. However, most of them really do want to win games. I can guarantee you, there are a lot of players that look at Kobe and think that they could really do something if they had a big man like Shaq to attract attention away from them. Next offseason will be their chance to earn the maximum salary and play alongside the MVP of the league. If you don't think that will be good enough incentive to draw some players to SA, you've really let your hatred cloud your judgment.
Derek Anderson the young, hip, urbane African-American would have re-signed in San Antonio had the Spurs felt like showing him the money. Half of the NBA season is spent on the road. If access to an urban nightlife is important to a player, then he will have access to that. Malik Rose is from Philly. He could have secured a deal starting at the MCE at least had he decided to shop around. But he didn't.
I'm not sure why I'm posting this... I dislike the Spurs (hate would not be too strong a word) because they are not the Rockets. I'm also not crazy about SA, partly because I get lost almost every time I drive there. (all those former goat trails are murder!) But my wife was born and mostly raised there, so I'm forced to go often for family reasons. I also hate having to shell out every year for League Pass 'cause of the damn Spurs. Having said all that, I've lived in Austin over 20 years, and one thing Austin DOES have is night-life. At night around 6th. Street and the Warehouse District, there are LOADS of limos. Austin is a little over an hour from SA. If players or anyone else wants to party, it's not hard. It's all here in Austin.
1. No, I didn't say it was OK for the Rockets to tank. And if you believed that the 01 or 03 Rockets year harbored legitimate title hopes, as the Spurs did those years, before and after, then your Rockets judgment is as clouded as your Spurs judgment. 2. As far as "the most ridiculous thing you have ever read on this BBS" goes, that might be a bit of hyperbole. All I know is that the Tim Duncan and his stoic Easter Island Head haven't been leading the league in endorsements. Perhaps his seeming lack of charisma has something to do with this? Or why was he mocked on TV by a miked up Shaq at the all star game 2 years ago (remember when he and (I belive webber but maybe somebody else) were snickering about "fundamentals" (in other words, boring) every time he touched the ball? Please, a used disposable razor is edgier than Tim Duncan. 3. Yes, Derek ANderson signed the one year deal and was out. San Antonio is able to attract quality FA's and rent them so that they can get better deals elsewhere in subsequent years. Congratulations. 4. Webber resigned in Sacramento because nobody else would, or could pay him what he wanted. All reports are that he hates lving in that fishbowl, which is why he was pining for New York, etc. 5. As far as "hatred cloud[ing my] judgment", that sounds a little too Yoda. I don't hate San Antonio, its a very nice city. It's loads better than Memphis. I don't hate the team either. That is reserved for Utah. However, I don't think they are that good of a team, nor are the players they just re-signed very good, nor do I think they have much of a chance to be good in the future unless they are able to draft more superstar caliber players.
Anyone who thinks Duncan is not comparable to Shaq is nuts. I don't care if Shaq blocked him 10 times in the 2002 series. Duncan had about the worst supporting cast possible. Hell, a 19 year old rookie (who did not even play as many minutes as he should have) was their SECOND BEST PLAYER. Im sorry but the difference between Shaq and Duncan is very slim, if there is any difference. And in the fourth quarter Duncan was basically quadrouple teamed. Bowen, Smith, Ferry did absolutely nothing to help Duncan. Its interesting how people can say Shaq is so much better than Duncan, when Shaq has 2 great clutch players in Horry and Fox, along with (who many people claim) as the SECOND BEST PLAYER in the league Kobe Bryant. And lets not forget oe of the greatest coaches of all time Phil Jackson right? Well what happened to Shaq when his support was not perfect? What happened to Shaq when Kobe was in his THIRD YEAR LEAGUE, and Shaq still had Glen Rice, Horry, Fox, and Fisher. AND YET HE GOT SWEPT and out classed by the Twin Towers. Now lets think......why is it that when the Lakers play the Spurs now the matchup may seem so lobsided??? For the simple fact Shaq has support, Duncan does not. Whenever Duncan did have full support his team swept SHAQ (who had basically the supporting he has now with the exception of Kobe being in his 3rd year). Anyone who is too lazy to remember this is caught up in the moment where because Shaq blocks Duncan a few times and all of a sudden Shaq is twice the player Duncan is...HOR$e$hit. When Duncan had a healthier Drob, some actual decent role players in 99 (Jaren Jackson, Sean Elliot, Avery Johnson) he SWEPT a Shaq who was in his 8th year in the league. Why couldnt Shaq put up a fight? Was it cause he didnt have as much HELP back then (in other words JUST KOBE wasnt as good as he is now cause he was young). THATS THE BOTTOM LINE, Shaq couldnt win until Kobe became a top 5 NBA player and he got a GREAT COACH who knew how to tie the team together...not to mention a little help from the Spurs (when Duncan got injured in 2000 and EVERYONE ELSE got old and injured by the time PLAYOFFS came around to play the Lakers). Look im not saying Duncan is MUCh better than Shaq. As of now Id say they are about even, but if anything I give Duncan the slight edge, until I actually see Duncan get more support and LOSE badly to the Lakers, then I will consider SHAQ the better player. Look its easy to see Shaq and Duncan are the best in the league, but to say Shaq dominates Duncan is RIDICULOUS. Give Duncan some more help and Shaq wont seem much better than Duncan if at all.
Ha ha, there are no spurs homers on this board. You're right, he's just a little bit better. It's ironic how this thread began with people criticizing the spurs for overpaying for role players, who Spurs fans vigorously defended. Now, when the subject turns to Tim Duncan, it's like he's out playing with the Washington Generals and has to take on the Lakers all by himself while his teammates are getting their pants pulled down by Meadowlark Lemon. Well if they suck so bad then why did they get re-signed? Oh that's right because they're good. Unless you compare them to the Lakers, in which case they are not good and the only reason why Shaq dismantles them every year except for 99 (which was nearly 4 seasons ago, if you guys didn't notice).
This whole thread is hilarious ! Some of you care a bit too much about what other people think about a team you like. I know this is a board for basketball discussion , but geez....
It's ironic how you keep ignoring the comments that disrupt your line of thinking. Tim Duncan and two good role players (Rose and Bowen) doesn't make a championship team. If every player getting major minutes had the quality of those two players, then your argument might have some merit. Rose and Bowen aren't the problem. The problem is with spot up shooters like Terry Porter, Steve Smith, and Danny Ferry being the perimeter options in the fourth quarter. The problem isn't with Rose and Bowen.
Disrupt my line of thinking? When anybody says that Tim Duncan is better than Shaq, it disrupts my entire central nervous system. Tthe claim you made and other spurs fans is not that "Tim Duncan lacks the proper spot up shooters in the 4th quarter to compete with Shaq .", or "Tim Duncan has inferior guards and backup forwards like Danny Ferry and therfore he only appears to be worse than Shaq" You and others say that the entire Spurs supporting cast is inferior. This necessarily includes Rose and Bowen, who are role players in that supporting cast. If it is inferior, then they should upgrade it. There are better players than Rose and Bowen available, (Rodney Rogers, Keon Clark, Bonzi Wells etc. ) why don't they go get them to upgrade the supporting cast? Second, if they had a whole team of Roses or Bowens, I don't know if you are trying to say they would be good or bad. My guess is bad. Finally, I think Tim Duncan is a good player. In fact, he deserved the MVP, if you interpret it in the "most valuable player to his team" way rather than the "best overall player" way. Without Duncan the "Supporting Cast plus Rose and Bowen" standing alone would undoubtedly be the single worst team in the NBA. He should be grateful that they suck so bad because people can't pull the "Kobe/Shaq is only good bc he plays with Kobe/Shaq" argument out against him.
The reason that the Spurs swept the Lakers in 99 was that Kobe was a little kid and Shaq hadn't become the dominant force he is now. Beating Kurt Rambis isn't like beating Phil Jackson. Post Jackson, the Lakers have beaten the Spurs 8-1 in the playoffs the last 2 years. That's domination. What happened this year is a lot more relevant than what happened in the strike shortened "who cares" season 3 1/2 years ago. Sorry, but Duncan is not better than Shaq, that's just stupid. People are comparing Shaq's achievements to MJ. No one is putting Duncan in that class of superelite alltimers and for good reason. "ironic how you keep ignoring the comments that disrupt your line of thinking. Tim Duncan and two good role players (Rose and Bowen) doesn't make a championship team. If every player getting major minutes had the quality of those two players, then your argument might have some merit" -Before the SA LA round 2 series, you went on and on about how the Spurs were just as good as 99. In your own words, Bowen was way better than Elie, Steve Smith was just as good as Elliott, Parker was way better than AJ, David Robinson could do exactly the same things he did in 99, etc. Now that the Spurs were crushed 4-1, you are using the excuses of a very poor supporting cast for Duncan. The very supporting cast you said was just as good as 99. What gives?
I'm a Spur hata. Ok, that out of the way, I don't see how they can expect DRob to perform a full season, or perform in the clutch. The season seems lost before it starts. All the other players can be fine to ok to above average, but it doesn't matter if the center becomes a big cipher. Pops schemes are very ugly, too. I wish someone else would set TD loose. He's great - but that org. is really lame.
Unless you were saying it was a "who cares" season before it started (and I heard ZERO Rockets fans saying it was) please shut up. Shaq's statistics were roughly the same in 99. He's what, 30 years old now? He hasn't "just reached his prime". He's the same player he always was. Kobe's slightly better now, but in 99, the Lakers had Glen Rice close to his prime, so that tends to level off. Phil (the most overrated coach or athlete in sports history) Jackson doesn't play the games. 2001 is the exception, not the rule. That team's chemistry made them virtually unbeatable. It's theoretically possible that the Lakers could play like that again, but doubtful. It's a reach to use that as a good comparison. My problem was overrating Steve Smith. Smith was a good player early in the season, and though he had tailed off, his playoff averages against the Lakers had always been well above his regular averages. I thought he would elevate his game... I was incredibly wrong. Elliott was that piece that the Spurs need Ginobili to turn into next season. The Spurs had no one that was capable of both shooting from the outside and slashing to the basket to draw attention away from Duncan. Tthe claim you made and other spurs fans is not that "Tim Duncan lacks the proper spot up shooters in the 4th quarter to compete with Shaq .", or "Tim Duncan has inferior guards and backup forwards like Danny Ferry and therfore he only appears to be worse than Shaq" You and others say that the entire Spurs supporting cast is inferior. This necessarily includes Rose and Bowen, who are role players in that supporting cast. If it is inferior, then they should upgrade it. There are better players than Rose and Bowen available, (Rodney Rogers, Keon Clark, Bonzi Wells etc. ) why don't they go get them to upgrade the supporting cast? How are the Spurs supposed to sign Rogers, Clark, and Wells with no cap room? Even if they let Rose and Bowen walk, or sign them to smaller contracts, it's not going to make a difference. Sorry, but Duncan is not better than Shaq, that's just stupid. People are comparing Shaq's achievements to MJ. No one is putting Duncan in that class of superelite alltimers and for good reason. Maybe it's because Duncan hasn't won three straight rings, which I have a feeling he might have done had Kobe been on his team. Shaq's not even the best player on his own team, so the comparisons to MJ are ridiculous media hype.
They got resigned, so what. Does not mean anything. Bowen is a good defensive player, and Smith is ABSOLUTE garbage. This is why its important that Ginobili becomes a good NBA player. If he does, watch out. You can ROLL your eyes all you want but Duncan had no help and thats the BOTTOM LINE. Shaq has the SECOND BEST PLAYER in the league and GREAT role players and he still barely beats the Kings? Jesus if Jordan has Hakeem Olajuwon I bet they wouldnt lose a damned GAME, let alone mention all this "WE WILL WAIT TILL THE PLAYOFFS TO TRY"..... Also I am not a Spurs fan, but its obvious that Duncan needs more help....then we can make a fair comparison.
Its comments like these that make we wonder if you know anything about the issue. Daviud Robinson can do the same things he did in 99? Hmm. I dont even think Robinson played the first two games, and he averaged a measly 6ppg in the series. Im sure he would put up the same stats in 99 considering SHAQ is SOO much better now than in 99 . Give me a break...Smith as good as Elliot? Bowen as good as Elie? Its obvious they were not, REGARDLESS of what "The Cat" said, we have found out the Spurs supporting cast is very weak so don't even through those words around.
First off, as far as signing better free agents, other organizations find creative ways via trades to get guys they want, with or without cap room. The fact that they are over the cap at all with that horific "supporting cast except for Rose and Bowen"is laughable and indicative of poor decisionmaking by Spurs management. Maybe they could even play rentaplayer like they did with anderson. Why don't they use the appeal of playing next to the league MVP, which is supposed to pay them big dividends next season now to give them the exceptions? You are right about one thing, it's not going to make a difference whether or not they have rose or bowen since they are nowhere close to Lakers. So they might as well overpay to 2 loyal hardworkers and just accept it. . Uhh, maybe that would be one reason, and maybe also that he scores more points, gets more rebounds, blocks more shots over the course of his career. despite sharing the ball with Kobe, and that he is the most dominant player in the league. If you think anybody besides a 110% true black/fuschia/turqouise Spurs fan would argue that Duncan is better than Shaq, go start posting "Duncan is better than Shaq" messages and then see where that gets you. Maybe it is because we are all sheep and believe the marketing and hype.
