What are the chances of Pettitte and Clemens coming back to Astros?

EDIT: if roger's contract...

 

in 2005, we drew around 34k+ then it went back up to the 2004 level in 2006 (the year after we made the world series).

In 2007 everyone renewed based on the hope Andy and Roger would be back to continue the best stretch in franchise history (and also the Biggio 3000 hits) and when they did not folks were stuck with season tickets for 81 games for a really bad team.

They will drop back to the 33-34 range next season based on more Biggion nights and matchups with the Yanks and Red Sox's

 

33-34 a night is healthy attendance. i don't expect them to draw 3,000,000 every year. i could certainly see it falling to there.

i don't get the drop in 2004 to 2005 if the concern was andy and roger, though. we knew andy was coming back in 2005...and we were correct in assuming roger would be back. still attendance dropped.

i don't think nearly as many of us thought they were coming back in 07. when did you have to renew your season tix?? this season it's 1/31. we knew andy wasn't coming back by early December for last season.

 

if you remember we were 15-30 in 2005 and the baseball was pretty terrible to watch. Our pitching caught fire and we were in a weak NL so we were able to win the wildcard. It jumped back up due to,

1.Folks buying 2006 season tickets to be able to get playoff tickets in 2005 and it remained high in 2007.

2.It's an easy sell if you were in the world series the year before

They will not drop off too much next season due to the reasons I have said before in this thread but it will be bad in 2009 if things don't turn around fast IMO.

 

I really don't think this would be a prudent decision regardless. There's a reason why the Yanks have been left behind. They have made poor personnel decisions and their penchant of trying to one up and buy championships finally bit 'ol George in the ass. He's just too arrogant to ever admit he's wrong and too bullheaded to change.

The Yanks got fat, lazy & arrogant. Lots of talent but, no heart!

For long term success with the 'Stros we must follow the Indians' model. Get younger, build up the farm and make a few FA moves to bolster but, guys like: Hunter, JR Towles, Anderson & Co. will be driving force to how much the 'Stros improve in '08.

Yes, the pitching staff after Roy O, Backe is a headscratcher at best. The Jennings deal was a backbreaker for this season. Signing Pettite and Clemens to another year where their health is a cliffhanger at best, is not the answer for our ballclub.

 

a slow start in 2005 doesn't explain it. as you said, season ticket base drives ticket sales....so information before the renewal deadline is critical. that they started 15-30 is inconsequential on the heels of their best post-season performance ever...and knowing andy and likely roger were returning.

WE WEREN'T IN THE WS THE SEASON BEFORE 2007.

season ticket renewals are due by 1/31 for the 08 season. if that was the same deadline for the 2007 season, then we knew andy was a yankee and roger likely wasn't an astro by then last year.

 

I don't know. 2004 was the biggest offseason in the teams history. That drove up tickets significantly from 2003. Perhaps sales at the start of 2005 were just a regression to what the "true" demand for tickets. Also 2004-05 offseason was pretty crappy. They lost Beltran and just the longest time it look liked they would lose Clemens too. I'm sure that played a role.

 

lost kent too

 

dude, look at the numbers it went from 3,000,000 fans in 2000 to just over 30k in 2003 while droping every year. Andy and Roger make a huge difference.

I don't really care what the attendance is at Astros games other than if it's low our owner might be inclined to trim payroll.

I would rather take 25k and win a world series like the white sox over having a sold out, rowdy crowd like the Cubs and never win ****.

 

You know what's sick. The 05 world series team lost 3 likely hall of famers from their 2004 roster. That 04 team was completely stacked. There could be as many as 8 hall of famers on the roster. Growing up an astros fan, with franchise that had no hall of famers that wore astros caps in it's history and only a handful that ever played for them. To go from that to have 1/3 of their roster in one year potentially be in the hall is amazing. No wonder attendance was so high that year.

 

They don't deserve to wear Astros pinstripes!

 

I say screw 'em both.
Pettite grew up down the street from me and I know I was one of the ones that bought the Home Boy Coming Back crap. And I know he played the Dumb Ass card by acting like he didn't feel the Astros were that interested, but the hell with him. He wanted to go back to the Big A(hole). And this time out, Mrs. Andy moved kids, dog and apron strings up there with him to keep an eye on him and out for whomever was corking his bat during his last stay. Good riddance.
As far as Clemens, it was strictly ego. And his BS speech about having to go through Texas to get back to NY is par. I hope nobody patronizes his restaurant. I enjoyed their tour of duty here but they took a giant dump on the whole town.

 

i never said they didn't make a difference at all...particularly not in 2004. but that has clearly been marginalized. we knew andy wasn't coming back in early december of 06...that meant we knew that roger wasn't likely to come back either. nevertheless, the astros drew over 3 million fans.

at this point, i don't think roger would move a bunch of seats. i can't imagine the city being nearly as jazzed at this point about him coming back...to the point where he would justify paying him whatever, no matter the cost, and considering it "off the payroll budget." we've been there done that. and i think most think roger is done or darn near close.

 

Well the team needs to get younger and needs to look to the future now...and that is building a competitive team around the existing core of Oswalt, Berkman, Pence, Lee. Pettite and Clemens just don't figure into that...now, the FA market is pretty thin, so I'd probably take Pettite back for a year until a viable longterm solution for a number 2 presents itself. But that's not gonna happen when has a 16milll option waiting for him in the place he loves to play, especially considering his heart was never truly in Houston when he was here.

As for attendance...I'm willing to bet that winning had a lot to do with the high numbers.

 

I third it...motion carried.

 

NL Central average OPS, minus Houston, no DH: .758

AL East average OPS, minus Yankees, with DH: .768

Just something else to chew on: AL OPS: .761, NL OPS: .757

In the 5 or so Aug/Sept/Oct starts I saw, I saw a guy who has to live on location unable to locate well enough to compensate for his lack of velocity, like he did so amazingly while in Houston. And it's not a question of "will his body break down", it's just a question of "when". He's done. And that's not even touching on the inflated salary, ego & sideshow he brings along.

 

Screw both of them, I hope they never come back. Im glad they got kicked out by the Indians. All they care more about was the money..

 

No chance.

Andy will pick up his player option for next year, no matter what. And I think Roger will retire... maybe. He should. Because he can't pitch in the AL anymore, he doesn't have good enough stuff or health.

 

both are washed up

 

Those two guys will be Astros again when we see....