What are the chances of Pettitte and Clemens coming back to Astros?

one more point. Why does the amount of money he gets affect your desire to have him back? In the astros last two contract negotiations with him, it's clear that the money reserved to sign him is separate from the rest of the payroll. so if it doesn't affect you personally and it doesn't affect the team's playroll in regards to signing other players. Why is it a concern?

 

Pitching in the American league east with a DH, against one of the best hitting division in baseball he had a 4.18 era. Disregarding that that number would be much better pitching in the nl central, it still would be the 2nd best era in our rotation!

His arm is fine, the only question is whether the rest of his body could hold up.

 

Because they drew 3 million fans without him. I think the impact on attendance from Roger was grossly overstated. I don't think he's a legitimate "off-the-books" move. And I think signing him would affect the Astros' willingness to go sign someone else.

And again...I have had enough of the part-time pitcher....who still doesn't have it when you need it at the end. He went on the DL twice (right?) in half a season. No thanks. He throws 5-6 innings max. No thanks.

 

Astros were down to 30K a game and about to drop further if it was not for Andy and Roger, last season's attendance was high because folks had to re-up before they knew Andy and Roger were gone and then there were a bunch of Bagwell and Biggio nights.

Astros have the Yanks and Red Sox's coming in so that will help sell many of the plans and there will be plenty of Biggio nights so I expect just a slight drop off but they will be back down around 30K by 2009 and it will continue to drop unless there is another 2004 off season.

my .02

 

2.5% for both of them
10% Roger
1% Andy

I don't want them back unless it's just for a year. MAYBE 2 years. The ONLY reason I would want either of them back is to fill the void until the Astros can go after some of the big name pitchers that will be FA after the 08 season.

Now I wouldn't be doing this to put them in playoff contention next season. Even though with those two in the top of the rotation, would make it much more possible than without them.

Another bonus to this would be the ability to make a trade. Adding those 2 would make people like Albers and yes... Wandy expendable. Depending on what you do in the offseason with the position players, other players could be expendable as well. Which, yet again, is more possible with those 2 than without them.

 

Astros were not down to 30K a game! They drew 3,020,405. Divide that by 81. That's over 37K/game. The stadium only holds 40,000 or so texanskan. They haven't been below 30K since they were in the Dome in 1997. I don't think you understand what a draw MMP is from the city (particularly for downtown after work) and from the region as a whole on weekend games.


http://www.allamericanpatriots.com/..._baseball_mlb_shatters_attendance_record_2007

With 3,020,405 fans, the Houston Astros have now drawn more than three million in three of the last four years. The club has now reached the three million mark in four of its eight seasons at Minute Maid Park and at least 2.8 million fans in six of the eight seasons at Minute Maid Park. Since the opening of the ballpark in 2000, the Astros have averaged over 35,000 fans per game for the history of the facility.

 

Next year Troy patton will be a 5-6 innings pitchers, so will matt albers, backe and chris sampson. Woody williams is a BAD 5-6 innings pitcher. And hell, wandy is a 3 inning pitcher on the road.

Bottom line is that Clemens would improve the team and cost them no prospects in return like a trade would. He would get the Astros that much closer to competing for a playoff spot next year and wouldn't negatively affect their ability to compete in the future. Isn't that the goal?

 

none of these guys would ask for $22 million for half a season's work. i'm sorry, i simply don't believe roger is worth that kind of investment.

 

www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/housattn.shtml

37,730 in 2000
35,880 in 2001
31,079 in 2002
30,299 in 2003
38,121 in 2004 the year Andy and Roger signed

the decline was heading under 30k, we have seen this with most of the new stadiums and if it were not for the great offseason of 2004 it would of kept going down

 

and 37,000 this season after 34,000 the season before.

there will be fluctuations all the time. no question about it. i don't think you're going to see this team be so bad for so long as to have MMP draw less than 30K for more than any one season at a time. 3,000,000 at the gate is fantastic.

 

The Astros have drawn so well in large part due to a new stadium, good teams, and marquee players. With most of those players now gone, and the team in the tank i'm doubtful they will be able to maintain those numbers as the ballpark get older. If the astros ignore the on the field product the attendance will suffer.

 

no doubt it will go down if they don't play competitively. but i have a hard time believing the astros will do anything other than field a competitive team on a regular basis, with a few aberrations here or there. that's the way it's been for the past 12 years or so. i do not believe for one second they intend to ignore the on the field product.

i also don't think attendance will ever tank like it did in the dome. it's just a totally different atmosphere at MMP.

 

Who cares what they drew? The question is how will Roger's contract affect the rest of the payroll. As the history tells us from 2005, 2006, and 2007 Clemens' status has little to no effect on the rest of the astros payroll. Who cares what drayton's rationale behind that is? Why would that be different this year?

Again, given that, why would you be concerned with how much he makes if he improves that team?

 

i agree. it's a great ballpark. I just have my doubt that they'll continue to draw 35+ if they aren't competitive.

 

you mean the year after they made it to the world sereis, come on man I have made an average of 35-40 games a year since I moved back to the states full time around 1990 and while it will never be as bad as it was this town is still not a baseball town and I can see 2009 being a 28k a game season.

 

The argument was he's an "off-the-budget" move because he pays for himself with increased attendance. I think that's a flawed argument. They drew more without him last season than they did the season before with him. I think they believed he had more of an effect at the gate than he really had. I'm guessing they're looking at the same numbers and thinking otherwise now.

so there is no "given that" from my point of view.

 

we made the WS in 2006??? where was i??

we drew more in 2007 than we did the year after we went to the WS (2006), texanskan.

this town is far more of a baseball town than you give it credit for now. that's what happens with an appealing ball park and a decade of winning. it builds long-term fans.

 

I am 99% sure they average around 28k a game in 2004 without Andy and Roger, it was trending that way just look at the numbers I provided.

Of course they are worth it, 40+ years of ZERO playoff series wins and then three in two years.

 

they WERE worth it. the astros paid them for that.

 

I actually think their is common ground here. It's roger's contract handcuffs the team in makes other personal moves to improve the team i would not want him. Basically the team is more than a roger clemens away from the playoff.

However, my argument is that for whatever reason, drayton has shown a willingness in the past to above whatever he standard payroll would be to sign
clemens. If he's willing to do this again I don't see why one wouldn't want roger on the astros.