1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

What are our 'assets' actually worth?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by kjayp, Feb 27, 2012.

  1. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,403
    Likes Received:
    5,482
    With trading season right around the corner, there are all kinds of trade ideas thrown about - some good - some not... I'm curious to see just what value people have of our team - and possibly other possible trade targets... This is intended to take all things into account - PER, defence, contract, age, team player, intangibles, etc... all the things GMs look at involving a trade...

    using a scale of 1-10

    Lowry - 8
    25 yrs old, 3 yr contract starting at 5.75, 20.4 PER, solid defender
    Martin - 5
    29, 2 yrs, 11.5M, 17.9, poor defender
    Scola - 3
    31, 4 yrs, 8.6M, 14.2, poor def
    Sam - 4
    30, 2 yrs,7M, 17.3, above average
    PPat - 4
    22, 3 yrs, 2M, 12.7, average
    Parsons - 3
    23, 4 yrs, 850K, 12.5, above average
    Bud - 2
    23, 2 yrs, 854K, 15.9, below average
    Morris - 3
    22, 4 yrs, 1.8M, na, ????
    CLee - 3
    26, expiring, 2.2M, 14.3, above average
    Dragic - 3
    25, expiring, 2.1M, 14.4, average
    JHill - 2
    TWill - 1
    Flynn - 1
    Thabeet - 1
    Smith - 1

    Now I will say that just because #s may add up (much like the trade machine) - doesnt mean someone would do the trade... were not gonna package JHill/TWill/Flynn and Thabeet and necessarily get a 5 rated player back or Kmart/Scola/Bud get us a 10 (such as Durant)... but jus rough values... something to play with while we wait... lol

    I'd also say a top 5 pick is a 7.... late second rounder is a 1
     
  2. thetatomatis

    thetatomatis Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2010
    Messages:
    5,699
    Likes Received:
    101
    Seems like a pretty tough scale. Lowry being a 8 might seem like Martin a little close to Lowry since he is a team leading scorer type. I would make Martin a definite 7 in terms of value. Regardless off season for less foul calls he still gets 19 points a game and shoots a good percentage. He can close a game with his freethrows. Martin is that shooter some teams need to get them just past contention or into contention.
     
  3. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    10,300
    Likes Received:
    584
    Motiejunas is actually worth a lot now I think. Maybe I'm being too homerish but I tend to think of him as being worth approximately a #10 draft pick. More than Morris. Llull is in there too, but I'm not sure how much he is worth. And our mid first round draft pick from the Knicks of course.
     
  4. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,403
    Likes Received:
    5,482
    I meant to addDmo and Lull - oversight...
    Thoughts? Id say Dmo is about a 4, with Lull at 3 - given his questionable desire/ability due to contract...
     
  5. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,403
    Likes Received:
    5,482
    I can see Kmart being higher, but I think that's more situational... ie he may be worth a 7 to Minnie due to their need, but only a 3 to the Lakers - given they have Kobe at the position... thinking more universal value.... but i could see him being a 6 - even at 29...
     
  6. RocketsMAN!

    RocketsMAN! Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    194
    I say Martin's a 7. Heck Ray Allen who plays the same position and not even to the same level of effectiveness is someone I would consider a 6, due to his contract size and duration. Martin's in his prime AND he's still learning defense. I'd say he's an 'above poor' defender. Not good yet, but that's why he's a good fit for us, he doesn't need to be.

    Who would he have the same role with, Minn? Mil? OKC? Orl? He's gonna fetch us something because his stock of player just don't grow on trees like undersized power forwards =)
     
  7. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    83,044
    Likes Received:
    86,436
    7.5
    Lowry, Kyle

    5
    Martin, Kevin

    4
    Patterson, Patrick

    2/3
    Budinger, Chase
    Dalembert, Samuel
    Dragic, Goran
    Lee, Courtney
    Morris, Marcus
    Parsons, Chandler
    Scola, Luis

    0/1
    Flynn, Jonny
    Hill, Jordan
    Smith, Greg
    Thabeet, Hasheem
    Williams, Terrence

    Really, not worth much. You have Lowry and Martin and bunch of throw-ins and/or deal "sweetners".
     
    #7 J.R., Feb 27, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  8. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    10,300
    Likes Received:
    584
    Not OKC, they have Harden. Minny's the best bet. If Martin could get us Pekovic, that would be amazing. Alternatively I could see them offering Derrick Williams since they have such a glut of big men.
     
  9. RocketsMAN!

    RocketsMAN! Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,154
    Likes Received:
    194
    Problem Williams or Beasley wouldn't be a fit for us. If we has a position player like either, we would still need solid shooting. Lowry and Lee could keep defenses honest. And the key would be if McHale could turn the motor of Defense on Williams or Beasley. We know Beasley has 3PT range, but I"m not so sure about Williams.

    And the problem with Minn's parts is that we're good at the 3, DEEP. But who isn't? Portland? LA? Utah (have PFs)? Orl? Houston is in the same boat as we were BEFORE we extended Scola and Lowry, quality players on Cap-friendly contracts, but now it's Parsons/Morris/PatPat/Dragic - who we want to keep.

    I hate to say I'm just waiting for March 1, but it is this week :grin:
     
  10. OremLK

    OremLK Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    10,300
    Likes Received:
    584
    Derrick Williams isn't a 3 contrary to popular belief. He's a pure PF. Still, between Scola, PPat, and Motiejunas there aren't looking to be a ton of minutes at the 4 either.

    But maybe we can trade the other assets for something and run Williams as our starting 4, or trade Williams to a third team for a player who better fits what we're looking to do.
     
  11. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,403
    Likes Received:
    5,482
    I think we're gonna get something good out of Minnesota for him. A couple things I considered with his value, were his kinda erratic scoring this year and how much the killed trade seemed to affect him... as aforementioned, I can see him rating a 6, or being worth more - if a team (such as Minnie) has the need...
     
  12. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,403
    Likes Received:
    5,482
    @ 36 with an expiring contract, I have to believe Ray Allen isnt worth much... if you're making a run this year he might be worth a look - but no long term benefit or value.... 3 or 4 - but once again, possibly worth more to someone given a particular situational need...
     
  13. napalm06

    napalm06 Minister Of The McLemore
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2008
    Messages:
    21,086
    Likes Received:
    18,594
    Man, we have some tough graders in here.
     
  14. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    7,403
    Likes Received:
    5,482
    I think its a matter of placing it all in the context of the league... for example, I wouldnt make Kobe or D12 a 10... crazy right? but really, would you rather have Durants 5 yr contract starting at 15.5M or 33 yr old Kobe's 3 yrs starting at 25.2M? or D12's 1 year rental - seeing as no extension is in place...

    If Durant is a 10, Kobe, D12 are 9s...
    maybe Bynum is a 7 or 8
    I'd put Pau at a 7
    Pekovic at a 5

    I'd say Martin is equal to Pekovic...
     
  15. jayhow92

    jayhow92 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    7,265
    Likes Received:
    2,073
    I like these grades. As of now this is where most would stand.
     
  16. thething

    thething Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2008
    Messages:
    2,610
    Likes Received:
    246
    Dalembert's value seems to be a bit overrated here, but other than that it looks good.

    Dalembert is getting older and he is simply not that good. He's just a stopgap center on a contract appropriate to his value--he doesn't have as much trade value as our young guys on small contracts like Bud and Lee.
     
  17. ribbit

    ribbit Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Messages:
    1,022
    Likes Received:
    207
    I think it may depend on the other team on how they look at our "assets." Kevin Martin may be a "2" to a team with a lot of scorers (say OKC), but he can also be an "8" to a team that badly needs a scorer (maybe Bobcats?).
     
  18. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2008
    Messages:
    83,044
    Likes Received:
    86,436
    So he's a worthless asset? :confused: :p I have to think he's the least bit better than those 09 busts in terms of value.
     
    #18 J.R., Feb 27, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2012
  19. dreamshake09

    dreamshake09 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2008
    Messages:
    214
    Likes Received:
    10
    The 09ers are worth more because of their contracts and have the new CBA is set up. They are definitely not 0 or 1.
     
  20. MostLoyalFan

    MostLoyalFan Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2012
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    5
    I agree w/you on the Trade Machine not working for everything, however I constructed one scenario that I believe may work and that these teams may actually do.

    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=823of4a

    In case the link doesn't work, it's essentially:

    Rockets Get: Pau Gasol PF & Nikola Pekovic C
    Lakers Get: Luis Scola PF, Johnny Flynn PG, & Michael Beasley SF
    Timberwolves Get: Kevin Martin & Jordan Hill

    Rockets get two coveted big men (albeit white twin towers). This changes the face of our defensive capabilities, our points in the paint, our rebounding percentages, and allows us to better compete with other post players who eat our guys' lunch. This also gives C. Lee a chance to show what he can do as well as offer better back-court defense than the laughable Martin. Perhaps we could even see Terrence Williams break into the rotation behind Courtney. Their athleticism is phenomenal. Yes, we lose Kevin's streaky scoring, but we gain Gasol & Pekovic's. I also understand we would lose out on some of Scola's hustle on the fast-break, but I have seen Gasol get a lot of the same baskets behind a slow ass Derek Fisher. Gasol also gets a lot of the same calls Scola does on the defensive end (charge/flops).

    Lakers get a very skilled and a crowd favorite true professional in Scola as well as Beasley and Flynn who both still have upside to their career. This also helps deepen their bench which is severely depleted in terms of scoring.

    Timberwolves get their wildest dreams come true with Kevin Martin and just because they'll need a big man who is comfortable in Adelman's offense and can offer some presence down low behind Milicic we throw in J. Hill.

    Of course there are some other intangible reasons why I think these 3 teams might actually go for it, but ultimately I'm not a GM--perhaps for good reason. What do you guys think? I believe we'd do well to get this done if possible.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now