Thanos, I do think Grant is a good player that would fit on the Rockets, I just don't want the Rocket's to tie up superstar money into a role player. I wanted Croshere too, but no way did I want the rockets to pay him 7 mill a year!!! I'm not saying pass on every player just because there is a chance at getting Webber or whoever, I just don't think Grant is worth that much. ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
I really *hope* you´re not putting Grant in the same class as Croshere. You just have to realize that getting the MAX is just not that difficult these days. And no, i wouldn´t sign Grant for 7 years, either. 4 suits me just fine. My rationale is simple: Sign Grant and we are a SF away from being SERIOUS contenders to the championship again. ------------------ "Never underestimate the heart of a champion"
I agree with thanos. It's not like this guy couldn't be unloaded next year. If the Rockets see their biggest need at the PF, then solve it now... don't worry w/ hypotheticals. Getting up under the salary cap at the tune of $10M next year is not a given. I still don't see Grant as a $10M player though... he's too injury prone. Others have said "but Shaq's injury prone too". Humbug, 15 and 10 for 60% of the games is injury prone... 35, 15, 4 and 4 is not. ------------------ "At one of these governors' conferences, George [W. Bush] turns to me and says: 'What are they talking about?' I said: 'I don't know.' He said: 'You don't know anything, do you?' And I said: 'Not one thing.' [Bush] said: 'Neither do I.' And we kind of high-fived." --Republican Gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico shares a verbal exchange that took place between he and George W. Bush. (Quote is from the Los Angeles Times, 5/31/00) Dubyah Speaks
All things considered, Grant, when healthy, is in the upper echelon of PF's in the league. He does not score 20 a night, but he is a tenacious defender, a great rebounder and runs the floor well. His mid-range jumper has improved leaps and bounds. The Grant I saw in the West playoffs against Karl Malone is the Grant I want. He had one bad year of injuries, that doesn't mean he has a penchant for them. A superstar? Not really. But Grant can certainly change a game on certain levels. I also think Grant could do a lot more if given the opportunity in a different system. Portland misuses him at times and he does not benefit from it. ------------------ HOOP-T ------------------
Sign Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan, or Kevin Garnett, and we are instant contenders. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
Cleveland has a great young team. Don't you think their priority would be getting these young kids (i.e. Traylor) playing time? They're certainly not going to compete anytime soon (I guess some would try to say the same about the Rockets ). How about Walt and some of the exception? How about All of the exception and some of the kids/small, short contracts? If I were Cleveland I would recognize that my team is not in a position of power. If they want to unload Kemp ($20M, are you crazy?), do it by any means necessary. ------------------ "At one of these governors' conferences, George [W. Bush] turns to me and says: 'What are they talking about?' I said: 'I don't know.' He said: 'You don't know anything, do you?' And I said: 'Not one thing.' [Bush] said: 'Neither do I.' And we kind of high-fived." --Republican Gov. Gary Johnson of New Mexico shares a verbal exchange that took place between he and George W. Bush. (Quote is from the Los Angeles Times, 5/31/00) Dubyah Speaks
" NBAtalk has learned that Portland has not abandoned getting Shawn Kemp. Said one source inside the Blazers, 'We're getting Kemp. Cleveland wants to dump him badly. We'll find a way.' That way, according to the source, may still include a three-way deal if Grant would be willing to play for a team like the Raptors" I don´t FREAKIN beliEve this! We may ACTUALLY have a shot at getting Grant! Carroll, Rudy, Les, if by any chance you happen to bump on this thread please please pleeeeeease try and pull this off! ------------------ "Never underestimate the heart of a champion"
Thanos-emphasis on may. http://www.pdxguide.com/scripts/editorial.dll?eetype=Article&eeid=1744038&render=y Notice how all the talks are centered around teams with big men (anyone else find Sacramento wanting Grant strange? He left their team, and they CWebb at PF? And getting rid of Divac, who Webber likes playing with? Is anyone else confused? What do we have that Cleveland wants? Is Walt even any better than their current SF, Lamond Murray? ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
You´re right... Sacramento´s interst is really weird. Could it be that they already consider Webber gone next year? And if it is so, why not just trade him outright? It doesn´t make any sense. Would the Cavs be intersted in KT, ´LOS, Drew and Walt? well, maybe not REALLY intersted, but as it has been stated, their MAIN concern is getting rid of Kemp. I think we MAY he have a chance, a small one, but a chance nevertheless. ------------------ "Never underestimate the heart of a champion"
Any CAP specialist out there wanna try and figure out if this idea is actually possible somehow? ------------------ "Never underestimate the heart of a champion"
Thanos: I'm no cap expert, so I hope someone jumps in on this. But I was thinking along the same lines. I won't throw together a perfect package; but what you said makes sense in a lot of ways: trade those 4 to Cleveland. Kemp goes to the Blazers. Grant and maybe cap-filler to the Rox. I honestly don't understand some of Rasta's detractors on this board. RocketsPimp doesn't want him (which worries me, considering his secret identity is probably Cat or Franchise or Shandon---but I demur.) Rasta gives this team what it needs: a strong defender, a floor runner, an offensive rebounder, and one hell of a first class human being. On the floor and in the community, he's perfect for the Rockets. Overpriced? Of course. But Theo Ratliff's getting 7 million a year. Jalen Rose will take nearly 100 million over 7 years. This is the age of grotesque salaries, unfortunately. Now, if Sacramento thinks Webber is gone, well, I won't even piss anyone off with the ludicrous idea of a 4-team trade in which Walt + Los + KT + Drew go to the Cavs, Kemp goes to Portland, Grant and Wells go to Sacramento, and Webber goes to Houston. It's too far-fetched, too out of line, and I won't even bother typing it down. Never mind the fact that Portland could finish off their trading by replacing Wells with Crawford by sending never-used Jermaine O'Neal to Da Bulls. Nope, I didn't say nuthin', 'cause I'm just a junior poster and would get RIPPED for even suggesting a scenario. Anyway, getting Grant is possible. I think he would love to play for our organization, and I think Rudy wants him. Face it: power forward by committee doesn't do the trick. Of course, then there's the chance of bogging down the lanes with Cato and Grant, but I've rambled enough. ------------------
Grant overpriced at ten mill per? Tracy MacGrady got the max and he averages like 14pts. and 6 rebs. a contest. Avery Johnson just inked for 8 mill per year. Ron Mercer is getting around 7 a year. The max doesn't necessarily mean "tier 1 free agent. That said, I would only do the deal if it was Walt and the 4.5 exception (ok, maybe Drew as well) for Grant. ------------------
I conceed Thanos. You were right, I was wrong. Houston should go after Grant big time. 10 mill 10 shmill. but you were still lying. You already had those cracks on your chin. ------------------ I am so exasperated that I could expectorate.
McGrady should have gotten the MAX. As productive as he is now at the age of 20 and the potential that he has yet to scratch, he's worth every penny. Avery got 8 million because the Spurs are over the cap anyways and are just rewarding him for his service over the years. Chicago was just desperate to fill in someone on the dotted line. Anyone who pays Grant the max should be hit over the head. Grant is as good as he is going to get and it's not that good. He's 29 years of age. Limited offensive player. Very good rebounder. Above average defender. He has some difficulty guarding the taller power forwards in the league. You either pay a player the max because he is currently one of the premier players at his positions, he oozes superstar talent, or as a reward for his years of high level performance for your organization. He doesn't qualify under any of the 3 scenarios. ------------------
Your points are sound, but somewhat questionable. Grant is not an above average defender. He is a GREAT defender. Anyone that saw his matchup against Malone in the lockout season is aware of that. Portland would have lost that series if it wasnt for him, no doubts about it. He is a great rebounder. He is not a great scorer, but we do not need him to be. The scoring will be handled mostly by our backcourt. And even then, Grant's scoring ability hasn't really been put to the test, since they have so many damn options in portland, even then, when Jackson and Rider were there and took LOTS of shots. As for your argument of guarding the taller power forwards, who in the seven hells is supposed to guard Garnett and Duncan save themselves? And i tought Grant did a good job, at least as good as POSSIBLE against duncan in the Western Conference finals that year. He IS worth the MAX, IMHO. ------------------ "Never underestimate the heart of a champion"
Okay for those who think getting Grant is ridiculous. I never said that this deal would happen only that it is a possibility. And if its’ a possibility then the Rockets would be foolish not to look into it. In fact I would be willing to bet that CD has already been on the phone talking to Portland. People who think Rudy wouldn’t make the deal under the right circumstances haven’t been listening to Rudy. Rudy and Cd said that this is a guy that they would love to have… That they even tried to acquire him in the Pippen deal. Okay so the consensus seems to be that Grant would be a good acquisition for the Rockets although many don’t want to pay the Max for him. Well I won’t argue that (others already have) it just seems that everyone is overpaid these days. He’s a lot cheaper than Juwan Howard and who would you rather have. Some think that we should save or cap Money until next year. First of all we are not going to have max money for the top tier players unless we do some player dumping. We will only have around 6 mil (see Davo’s updated salary post) which will land us a second tier player. But let’s say we manage to dump Walt William’s salary. Well there are only a couple of free agents better than Grant that being Finley and Webber. And I personally would rather have Grant than Finley for our team. He makes us a more physical team while not taking the focus away from our guards. So that means we should save this money in hopes of getting Webber. Well unless someone has some inside scoop that Webber would really love to play for Houston then I wouldn’t pass on Grant. People say that the Cavaliers may not want what we have to offer… but the bottom line is they are running out of options. In spite of what Nikestrad says they desperately want to dump Kemp. They don’t want to pay a luxury tax when his salary goes over 20 Million… Hell, unless you are a Paul Allen, Mark Cuban or maybe even our own Les you don’t want to pay a Luxury Tax. . So they have to somehow trade Kemp and the only team that wants him right now is Portland. But Grant doesn’t want Cleveland. So they need a third team. And that’s where the problem starts. When you are dealing with high salary players you have to find teams that can match the salaries with players that you want to trade. The New York situation would have been idea for them and they would have done it only they didn’t trust Camby’s knees. So now teams like Seatle and Vin Baker and Sacramento and Vlade Divac are being offered. But Baker is a high salary player with depression and Vlade is old and they already have Chris Mihm. So now I think the next step for them is to dump Kemp for almost nothing just to make cap room for later. Now the only teams that could help them with this are teams with cap space and those teams are down to Toronto, Chicago and Houston with are trade exception. Well Chicago doesn’t want Grant are Kemp. So that leaves Toronto and Houston. Well Toronto has more cap space to deal with but Houston has more 1st round picks to offer. Anyway I know it’s more complexed than this but I still think it is a possbillity. Which is why I posted this in the first place. ------------------
Da Man: I've never seen Grant have trouble with larger PF's.... I've seen him defend LARGE Centers (AKA Shaq) extremely well. Grant subbed for Sabonis quite ably at times during the playoffs this last year, meaning that he's VERSATILE. Sure, Grant isn't the *best* deal at 10 million, but he's much better than anyone else you can get. Let's see who is a BETTER PF. Duncan. KG. (when he plays the 4) Webber Wallace Brand (maybe... I wonder how he'd do playing for Portland) Malone I'd say that McDyess is about even-better offense, but not the defender that Grant is. I'm not certain that there is another... which would make Grant the 8th best PF in the league. Defensively, I'd say he's better than many I listed above him... and defense is our primary deficiency. ------------------ The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Old Man Rock: Hey, I agree with you. In fact, a 3-way (so to speak) that would facilitate Portland's hard-on (can I get away with that?) for Kemp is an excellent idea. Everyone gets what they want. I know people say Walt's nobody, KT is average, and all that bunk, but the Rockets are the only team that can help push this thing through. Think about it. Chicago? They have Brand. Don't need Grant. The two don't want each other anyway. Toronto? Forget it. Won't happen. They'd have to dump Davis or Oakley. Clippers? Won't pay more than $7.25 for a star-caliber player. Detroit? They need a small forward or a center. Nope. Anyway, I hope no one jumps your s*** for posting this. Your idea has merit. Because we desperately need a solid power forward. And Grant wants a place desperate for him. And about the small forward position? Langhi, Anderson, and Bullard can hold down the fort for a year. If necessary, we can always move Langhi + #1 draft picks in an effort to secure Terence Morris next year..... Oh, the possibilities. ------------------
NIKE, I disagree with you. Grant is being offered 4 years/$40mil. Kemp is scheduled to make $71mil over that same pperiod of time. I think that teh CAVS would cut him if they could get out from under that salary. His work ethic has become a plague to that team. I'm not saying that the proposed deal would fly, but I wouldn't discount any deal that would help Cleveland lose the Reign Man. He is easily the most disgusting example of a player with no pride, getting a fat raise and then turning into the laziest SOB on the court. Cleveland should be able to sue his sorry ass. I can't believe the Blazers would want him. Did you hear his comments about the possibility of going to the Blazers. He promised he would get in shape and start working out. I guess it's only when he has a good team aroud that he decides to earn a paycheck. He is a disgrace to the city of Cleveland and it's predominantly blue collar work force. Just my oppinion. Man I got worked up. ------------------ "Stranger things have happened, but none stranger than this" - Commentator after a parachutist landed in the ring of a Holyfield fight
http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/index.ssf?/sports/oregonian/00/08/sp_63blaz04.frame "Brian Grant on Thursday night turned down a seven-year contract worth more than $90 million in a sign-and-trade proposal that would have sent him to the Cleveland Cavaliers." 7 years, 92 million to be exact. ------------------ The more lefties on your team, the better. Collier is Seven Foot and Left Handed. How can you go wrong? Trade or bench Kenny Thomas.
