I can totally agree with you with that... you simply dont build around these guys. At the same token, you cant sit there like most people on this board and place a 100% of blame or even most of it on SF for his "team's" failures... know what I mean...
Indy is going to 'do something' and Artest or Harrington is out, IMHO. Harrington for Cat or Artest/Pollard for Cat/Cato Either is possible. Give me Artest (and I'll swallow Pollard's albatross of a contract).
It will take a pretty solid offer to pry Artest from Indiana. If we trade Steve, it won't be to the Pacers. Maybe with a third team involved. Carlisle won't want Steve, whose defense is only OK, and Bird won't want him because, well, Steve isn't white (just kidding!! just kidding!!) Cat and Cato for Artest/Pollard is actually pretty reasonable. You get a center so that O'Neal can stay primarily at PF; a Beast in the East. You get Cat, who plays good D and can score (which the Pacers need). But if Cat opts out after this year, he might say "no" to staying on in Indianapolis. Which is why I say if we trade Steve, we might have to trade Cat, too, because we'll risk losing him in a year (I don't know where he would stand as far as sticking it out in Houston). Two players I'd take over Steve: Artest; AK-47. Especially the latter. Then get Brent Barry or whomever to play some point.
Do you honestly believe that had one of these players' teams had a player that you believe you do build a franchise around instead of these guys, then they'd have won a championship? Could it possibly be that the management of these teams just didn't add the personnel? In basketball, there's only so much one player can do to alter the outcome of an entire season. If you look at the teams that these players were on, I doubt any of them were championship quality to begin or end with.
Ron Artest is the best defensive player in the league. He also averages 18ppg. He improves his game every single season. Francis for Artest straight up would be a nice trade. But only because I believe that Francis can go back to averaging 22ppg on that Pacers team. Oh, and because Harrington can take over. Nothing short of Francis or Yao will net us Artest. His stock has never been higher. How about Francis and Cato for Artest, Foster, Pollard and Tinsley? Cato/Sign someone? O'Neal/Croshere Harrington/Bender Reggie/Fred Jones Francis/Brewer Yao/Foster MoT/Pollard/Spoon Artest/JJ/Boki JJ/Mobley Tinsley/???/Wilks?/Mobley? I believe that team could be excellent, ESPECIALLY if it signed Troy Hudson. We'd need some scoring and depth at PG. It would be an incredible bench as well.
Take Steve off this team, and insert Artest and what have you got? You mean to tell me that you guys really believe that we would have made the playoffs last year, or the year before, or the year before???? If you are gonna trade Steve for Artest this is what you have to look at. This team would have sucked even worse than we already were, because Artest cannot do the things offensively that Steve does. This would have created even more pressure on Yao, with more double and triple teams. Would you rather double or triple Yao and have him throw it out to Artest, or would you rather have to worry about doubling or tripling Yao and Steve getting loose? It's a no brainer. Steve for Artest sets this team back. Now, Cat and/or Cato/MoT for Artest/Harrington, Pollard, and whatever else may be worth considering. If we are gonna trade Steve, we have to get a player that is a constant offensive threat and will make teams have to think about when and where to double Yao.
I agree with what you have to say for Artest. One thing I feel the 'need' to point out. Never throughout the season and post season did team's worry about doubling Yao AND Steve. Yao? Yes, happened all regular season. Steve however, was never really given that respect offensively. Hence all the T-mac trade talks. We WANT a player to give teams another threat to worry about, so we don't rely on Yao all season long for offense and then expect him to still muster up more energy in the playoffs against playoff contenders like the Lakers, Spurs and Minnesota. Yao is too tall, too heavy and plays all year round to expect him to provide all the offensive pressure an entire NBA regular season, so we can get to the playoffs, to only burn out in the post season when we most need him.
When Yao and Steve were running the pick and roll or the pick and fade, and Steve was able to shoot, the defense didn't know what to do. One thing we keep forgetting about Steve's poor shooting this year is he had a knot the size of a softball on his elbow for most of the season.....but he gutted it out anyway. Steve has guts and skills. Artest isn't enough to get for him. We have to get a solid #2 or #1b option for Yao for any trade of Steve to be worth it. The player needs to be able to hit the jumper as well as run the pick and roll effectively and handle the basketball. That ain't Artest.
i dont think trading artest is in the pacer plans at all. however they are shopping harrington everywhere. i don't have links right now so you will have to take my word for it. on a pacers BBS there was a link from a seattle paper saying the sonics want al for flip and radmanovic...even offering as much as rashard. also they talked about another paper hinting that they are using al as bait for the #3 pick. i didnt think our little trade idea of mo and cat for al, austin, pollard stood a chance, but when i posted it there they all went for it.
I think a team of Dooling Richardson Magette Duncan Olowokandi would alomst certainly be contenders. So would a team of Arenas Richardson Dunleavy Duncan Dampier. For that matter, so would a team of: Mobley Jackson Nachbar Duncan Yao.
ha. im not sure whether im pissed, annoyed, or humored by this ridiculous thread. ok let me get this clear. you guys want us to get artest? hmm.. i remember most of you b!tching at the fact that francis doesnt care about the team on numorous occasions.. and now, artest? the guy who is always being ejected for doing the stupidest ****! dont get me wrong, i love artest, but i honestly dont think he is the type of player we need leadin this team.. i think he would be a cancer in the locker room. and why do we need another lock-down sg.. Mobley is more than just an adequate defender/scorer... he is a better 3 point shooter, free throw shooter, mid-range shooter, and is extremely professional. Artest is a mediocre scorer at best. He scores off the post, and last time i checked we already have 2 SOLID post players in Yao and MoT.. I would love to acquire Artest, but never at the expense of Francis, NEVER.
