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Westbrook is making Harden

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Loneyroy7, Jan 8, 2020.

  1. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    not saying that he’s some completely different player although the level of efficiency he’s had with Russ is interesting

    would be more convincing if OP illustrated exactly what Russ is doing on the court to make Harden so much better and if the sample size wasn’t 4 games
     
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  2. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    Clutch gave him a task to actually show something credible. I doubt it happens
     
  3. smp

    smp Member

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    Tonight’s game is going to be good! CP3 vs Westbrook. Both healthy. Head to head.

    Really looking forward to this one.

    But back on topic- I like CP3 and Westbrook. I’ll root for whichever one is a Rocket. That said, neither of them is making Harden better. Harden makes himself better. He pulled McHale, D’Antoni, CP3, and Dwight to some incredible regular season records and the WCF.

    Westbrook is just the next guy on the gravy train.
     
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  4. napalm06

    napalm06 Huge Flopping Fan

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    Yeah I don't think you're shutting anyone up with this. Were you asleep through 17-18?
     
  5. Air Yordan

    Air Yordan Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. Reeko

    Reeko Member

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    Harden in the 3 previous games without Russ

    44 points on 12-28 shooting, 7-16 from 3, and 13-18 from the line...61% TS

    49 points on 16-41 shooting, 8-22 from 3, and 9-11 from the line...53% TS

    39 points on 14-33 shooting, 4-13 from 3, and 7-8 from the line...53% TS

    then last night’s atrocity

    41 points on 9-34 shooting, 4-20 from 3, and 19-23 from the line...47% TS

    it’s only been 4 games, but in those 4 games, he’s been a huge chucker...he’s obviously capable of playing so much better...next 4 games without Russ he could average 40+ on 50% shooting for all we know...I mean, what were Harden’s percentages to start the year with Russ next to him? They were garbage, but it was a small sample size that we all knew wouldn’t continue.

    whether Russ really is Harden’s power boost or not, 47% from the field and 39% from 3 is great
     
  7. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    This article explains what data you would want to look at. On/Off by itself almost certainly won’t tell an accurate story.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/spacec...ced-stats-james-harden-russell-westbrook/amp/

    Essentially, if Westbrook can eliminate Harden taking shots during the last 4 seconds of the shot clock, he can boost Harden’s efficiency by nearly 15%(!)

    CP3’s play-style actually made it much more likely that Harden would take shots in the last 4 seconds of the shot clock, and the stats from his time here reflect this.

    Obviously pace slows down during the playoffs, and you generally take more shots in the last 4 seconds as a team, so we’ll have to see what happens in the playoffs. However, it is worth mentioning that we we definitely take fewer of these shots as a team this year, and our percentages on those shots last year actually suffered even bigger drop offs than our other shots earlier in the shot clock.
     
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  8. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    Another important idea is the relationship between offensive efficiency and pace, and it’s affect on the relationship between defensive efficiency and wins.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/watchs...cs-actually-translate-to-wins-07-13-2019/amp/

    The question is, why aren’t offensive and defensive numbers equally important leading indicators when determining what teams win more basketball games?

    The short answer is pace, even though pace is one of the worst indicators of wins in itself. Pace and it’s relationship to offensive efficiency determines how bad your defense can be while still winning games.
     
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  9. LorneMalvo

    LorneMalvo Member

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    Do I actually need to explain to you the difference between the Warriors and LeBrons lottery Cavs?
     
  10. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    How has the garm gotten even more Garmier?
     
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  11. LorneMalvo

    LorneMalvo Member

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    Pace is absolutely meaningless. You have an article that breaks it down in detail.

    How did that go over your head?


    The only thing dumber than the bold was this other horrible comment I read here about pace and efficiency. This place is likr the infowars of basketball knowledge.
     
  12. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    That 65-win team is still currently the apex of the Harden era. No duh right? I say that is because that team had the best wing defender rotation of any Harden team and that definitely played a huge factor in its success. Not to downplay CP3's performance that year but without Ariza, Tucker and Mbah a Moute I doubt the Rockets would have won that many games and pushed the Warriors to 7. That being said, if this Russ/Harden team had that kind of defender rotation we would steamroll every team in the league right now, including the Bucks and the Lakers. So, to me, it's kind of hard to say either duo is THAT much better than the other because the make up surrounding either duo is different.
     
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  13. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  14. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    There was a stat shown earlier that Harden is getting like the 6th most open shots in the NBA, a crazy stat because everyone else on there were role players outside of Vuccimane. It's crazy considering that teams double Harden so hard, so how is he getting these open looks? I don't remember many last night...

    My guess is Harden is getting these open shots out of what Westbrook is doing. One, Harden is the trail guy on Russ fastbreaks, that's one way, and Russ and the Rockets have been using him out of the double to drive and kick which may get Harden open through a hockey assist.

    I don't know, like you I'm just guessing based on the eye test, I don't have anything to back up my claims that Russ's pace is getting Harden open shots, but it is strange that he's getting so many considering how defenses start any game with multiple plans to prevent it from happening...so it is being forced upon them some kind of way and all I remember from last night was Harden chucking contested 3s which even for him are harder than open ones.
     
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  15. JayGoogle

    JayGoogle Member

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    Yeah man, people really forgot how well Ariza and Prince Luc were for this team. Two 3 and D hustle guys.

    House hasn't even been close to that and...ummm...we don't even have a guy behind house. Bmac sure, but he's more of a Green replacement as his D is really bad. We also had Nene in regular season games. That team was just complete, a finished product, this one isn't.
     
  16. daywalker02

    daywalker02 Member

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    The Worriers lost to the Cavs once, they have that going for them, to go thru the easier East.

    Nothing you will throw at me, will change this reality.

    I never said the Rox are bound to lose, I just said it was more like 50/50 chance of winning it all, with HC advantage probably 55% for the Rockets.

    The Cavs should never be counted out. They did something the Rockets couldn't do.

    Beat GSW without Durant and with the other Allstars.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_NBA_Finals
     
  17. YOLO

    YOLO Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  18. MorningZippo

    MorningZippo Member

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    It’s pretty amazing how often you consistently miss the point. It’s almost like you are completely incapable of actually comprehending something that you read.

    I specifically mention that pace isn’t a reliable indicator on its own. How you missed that when my reply was 4 sentences long is a scientific marvel.
     
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  19. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    LOL at this ****ing thread. He’s averaging 2 more ppg an has shown he improves every season ...but yea Westbrick
     
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