1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

We're ****ed.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Apr 23, 2023.

  1. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,345
    First off I’m sure some of the posters here will be surprised that I’m actually a Bernie Bro.;)

    Angus King as a US Senator is very well respected and has been instrumental in working with Biden and Republicans to get several of those things that you praise Biden for passed. For that matter Sanders support in the Left has been critical
    For things like the infrastructure bills.

    Jesse Ventura for all of his prickly personality actually ran a really good government that got an infrastructure bill passed and a tax cut. His appointees drew from across the ideological spectrum and actually worked on issues rather than protecting their own partisan turf. The Minnesota Independence Party frequently has candidates that are highly praised by major Mn papers. What killed us was that the national
    parties pump tons of money, visits by national figures and endorsements in.

    Also you’ll note that in the very post you’re responding too I point out the difficulty of a third party success in the national level which is why o say start at the state level.
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,345
    You’ve pointed out a lot of problems. And I fully agree, we have a lot of problems.

    What is your solution?

    You yourself said we can’t make the perfect the enemy of the good yet that seems to be what you’re doing.
     
  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,993
    Likes Received:
    19,938
    I've already posted about the way out.

    I'm just making fun of someone hopelessly incapable of admitting there's a problem (or hopelessly married to the idea that the problem can be fixed if we just vote for more democrats).
     
    #103 DonnyMost, Apr 24, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
  4. astros123

    astros123 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    14,051
    Likes Received:
    11,702
    The problem is money has corrupted politics. The reason why we have MTGs and radicals is because we have gerrymandered districts and these folks know they'll never lose their race. Imagine having a job where you knew you could do anything and not get fired...do you show up to work? When you're in a swing you can't say crazy ****. You'll get voted out.

    If we eliminated super pacs and unlimited corpoate money our ecosystem would be so much healthier. There's no reason we should allow corrupt lobbying and unlimited foreign money Influencing our politicians.

    You don't need a third party to accomplish this. Republicans want to make everyone beleive the world is crashing and everything is burning because they win that way. Nihilism benefits the GOP as the status quo is corrupt with money.

    Have you read HR1? highly recommend you to take a glance

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_the_People_Act
     
  5. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,154
    Likes Received:
    23,442
    POTUS will on avg have a longer life expectation with 24/7 instant access to the best of best health care. But your points are well taken. One advantage of his old age is that if Trump were to somehow win, mother nature may come to our rescue.
     
    Nook likes this.
  6. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,993
    Likes Received:
    19,938
    Careful what you wish for. His VP could easily be more maleficent than he is.
     
  7. astros123

    astros123 Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2013
    Messages:
    14,051
    Likes Received:
    11,702
    The funny thing bidens approval go up *AFTER EVERY* big speech he does. He's done 3 prime time speeches in past year and his approval went up after every time. Americans think he's not up for it then he does a speech like SOTU and his numbers go up. After 2023 SOTU PEW research focus group found him +22 mental fitness AFTER the group watched the speech.

    I work in Healthcare and people don't realize the drugs the fda are testing are decades ahead of what we have in the open market. Biden has access to drugs that we don't think know exist.

    Regardless, I don't like kamala harris because she has a long history of wall street lobbying. I think she's a good VP but I would never vote for her as POTUS. She would literally destroy all the progress Biden made in anti trust and corporate regulations. It would be a disaster

    Harris is a liability for Biden.
     
    #107 astros123, Apr 24, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,154
    Likes Received:
    23,442
    lol, MTG as VP would be wonderful

    Trump is too smart (or so I hope) to select a VP who has worse character than he does. Like the first time around, he recognizes the importance of appealing to the center, especially the religious center.
     
  9. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,345
    Yes I’ve read HR1 and agree with most of it. That still doesn’t change the central point I was making. The way to take on the two party system is to start from the state and local level. Even then it is difficult given the reasons stated but you are likely to have more success. Then just trying to change it at the national level.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.
  10. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,345
    I cant speak definitively for other posters but I don’t think any one thinks everything is perfect and there aren’t problems. Just compalinfing about the two party duopoly and that things aren’t getting done as exactly as you would like it also a problem.

    As I’ve stated I personally don’t like Joe Biden. Tht said he won the nomination last time, is the incumbent and likely will win it again. I can choose to withhold my vote because I’m just feeding the duopoly and complain about how we don’t have a real choice. Or I can recognize tht there are vast differences between Biden and Trump. While neither are people that I personally would like to spend a lot of time with one is far more aligned to my interests. Also not to forget that one didn’t try to have his supporters overthrow our democracy because he didn’t accept the election results.
     
    Rashmon likes this.
  11. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    81,582
    Likes Received:
    122,002

    [​IMG]
     
    dmoneybangbang, basso and Nook like this.
  12. Agent94

    Agent94 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2002
    Messages:
    3,650
    Likes Received:
    4,127
    I think you and @DonnyMost are both right, but are looking at things from different perspectives. The problem is definitely deep capture. Money has deeply corrupted American politics which leads to distrust and malaise in the populace. Voters are not represented in our government, only money get representation.

    https://represent.us/americas-corruption-problem/

     
    #112 Agent94, Apr 25, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
    Andre0087 likes this.
  13. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,993
    Likes Received:
    19,938
    Corruption/capture is definitely made easier by duopoly politics. You can construct rules to limit the damage or slow the rot, but empowered choice is the only real disinfectant.
     
  14. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,993
    Likes Received:
    19,938
    Hard disagree. Identifying problems is important. We're not obligated to offer solutions, but it's encouraged.

    Doesn't really have much of anything to do with what I've been talking about.

    All I will say is that I don't judge people who don't vote if they don't feel like their views are represented.

    We have this perverse expectation in our country that people are supposed to cater to the parties.

    In reality, it's the parties' responsibility to recruit the voters. If X voter stays home, I blame the party for not giving them a reason to come out.

    That being said, I also don't judge folks who vote consistently for the lesser of two evils, because it's the system we have to live with for now.

    What I do judge people for is purposefully obfuscating or downplaying problems and acting like brain-dead partisan idiots to the detriment of the country as a whole.
     
    #114 DonnyMost, Apr 25, 2023
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2023
  15. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    43,804
    Likes Received:
    3,709
    He has done a good job. I think his age will be an issue depending on who Republicans run. I don't think they will run Trump, they are too smart for that.

    If they run someone they can pass off as moderate, Biden will have a harder time but his record is good for people who are truly independent
     
  16. thegary

    thegary Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    11,018
    Likes Received:
    3,145
    Oh, well, I’m in a pretty damned good mood.
    Carry on…
     
    Buck Turgidson likes this.
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,072
    Likes Received:
    15,251
    I hear Tucker Carlson is available.
     
    mdrowe00, Andre0087 and Ottomaton like this.
  18. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,769
    Likes Received:
    22,548
    Anyone who thinks "We're F-cked" because Joe Biden might be president a few more years needs to turn off FoxNews for longer that 30 seconds. Is he the next revolutionary American President to save humanity, and savior to us all???.... No... but the dude is a solid president, and has gotten alot done in just 3 years. A second term to finish out your full two terms isn't the end of the world, and gives the Democratic and Republican parties both more time to figure out what vision they want to provide the country in this next generation.

    God knows right now the Republican party has tunnel vision around dreams of running the country as a Christian Fascist Dictatorship. They obviously need another 4 years to sit back and decide whether they want to be a part of this Democracy, or if they all need to just book it to Moscow.
     
    FranchiseBlade likes this.
  19. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2003
    Messages:
    48,993
    Likes Received:
    19,938
    The problem isn't X candidate is bad or Y candidate is bad.

    The problem is a country of 330 million people cannot seem to find, or effectuate a system that can ensure, two humans whom the majority of them believe should even be running... actually do.
     
    basso likes this.
  20. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2010
    Messages:
    25,769
    Likes Received:
    22,548
    I respectfully disagree. If anything in 2020 the problem with the left is they had too many (can argue pretty good) options and that led to South Carolina and the African American vote really weighing heavily in Biden’s favor because of the goodwill he has with that community. You had senators, famous authors, a billionaire, a young super smart mayor, a tech guy, etc etc. However Biden beat them all fair and square then. You might have preferred a tech guy like an Andrew Yang and I might have preferred a wonky lib like Warren but our like-minds didn’t organize well enough to get our candidate through Super Tuesday.

    However Biden still has done a good job of understanding the factions and having some legislative appeal or bringing on that representation into his admin.

    This is how Democracy’s work man. It’s not perfect but it’s the best we have. Because on the other hand the primary voters very much prefer Trump. We have lots of preferences and it’s obvious they mostly just really love the orange autocrat.
     
    dmoneybangbang likes this.

Share This Page