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We're #1 - in per capita prisoners

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Woofer, Aug 17, 2003.

  1. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    The Great Society and various government programs contributed to the breakdown of the family. If I am not mistaken, I believe the rate of 1 parent homes in the African American community was much lower in the 1950's and 1960's. Now, the rate of 1 parent homes among whites is as high as African Americans in the 1960's.

    With welfare reform, we have no seen a slight uptick in marriage rates among African Americans.

    I think you are trying to say that slavery formed most of the culture of African Americans that we see today, no doubt it played a part, but when we are talking about crime and poverty, I think those traits are more traceable to our burgeoning welfare state. Can you show me otherwise?

    And also, in regard to Hispanics, I think they have the highest rate of highschool dropouts and teen mothers. We are not trying to make them become part of our culture, instead they can go to school and speak Spanish and possibly never learn English. This is gonna cause problems down the line.
     
  2. Timing

    Timing Member

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    Originally posted by Mr. Clutch
    The Great Society and various government programs contributed to the breakdown of the family. If I am not mistaken, I believe the rate of 1 parent homes in the African American community was much lower in the 1950's and 1960's. Now, the rate of 1 parent homes among whites is as high as African Americans in the 1960's.

    That's irrelevant really. The number of black single parent homes was three times that of white single parent homes in 1880 and it's still roughly three times it today. In fact the single parent white families are growing faster than single parent black families right now. The ratios have always been roughly the same since records have been kept.


    `U' STUDY LOOKS AT ISSUE OF RACE, SINGLE-PARENT FAMILIES
    By SOURCE: JEAN HOPFENSPERGER; STAFF WRITER |

    A study that compares census data from today with data from the
    past 130 years is offering new insights into the debate over the
    explosion of single-parent households, particularly among blacks.

    For 80 years, from 1880 to 1960, the proportion of black children living with a single parent held steady around 30 percent, according to the new research by the University of Minnesota. During the same time, the proportion of white children living with one parent stayed at about 10 percent. But in recent years, those figures have climbed - to 63 percent for black children and 19 percent for white.


    I think you are trying to say that slavery formed most of the culture of African Americans that we see today, no doubt it played a part, but when we are talking about crime and poverty, I think those traits are more traceable to our burgeoning welfare state. Can you show me otherwise?

    You're saying welfare has contributed more to the formation of black culture than racism and slavery? Seriously?

    And also, in regard to Hispanics, I think they have the highest rate of highschool dropouts and teen mothers. We are not trying to make them become part of our culture, instead they can go to school and speak Spanish and possibly never learn English. This is gonna cause problems down the line.

    I don't think speaking Spanish causes Hispanics to drop out of high school and get pregnant. This is simply an attempt by America first people to homogenize cultures. Language is the least of this country's problems.
     
  3. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    No, that was your obvious starting point., I am asking you what the root..'root'...cause is for, as you contend, African Americans to commit more crimes. Forget for a moment all the evidence that shows that they are searched more often, pulled over more often, charged more often in similar circumstances, given harsher penalties for similar crimes, etc. and let's just het down to the nuts and bolts. If they commit more crimes, I ask you why.


    If it comes down to socioeconomic status or education, again, I ask why there is a difference, if not racism? If noit, I am intrigued as to your explanation for the discrepancy.
     
  4. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    How can you go from saying the Great Society is irrelevant, then you go and post something that shows that after being stable for 8 years, the black (and white) family structure crumbled? Just because the rate of black single families was also higher in the 1880's doesn't mean that the 1960's had much worse effects in this particular area.

    In regards to this specific things we are talking about- crime, single parent homes, yes I think the '60s had more of an effect. If we talk about wealth, then slavery and racism had more of an effect. Your own post backs up that the amount single parent homes exploded after the 60's, not because of slavery. Kids who are raised by single parents have higher rates of poor education, crime, etc.


    I didn't state that Spanish is the sole reason, but it's one of them. It keeps young Hispanics from learning our culture and succeeding it. If a Hispanic immigrant does not teach his kids English, how far do you think his kids will go in our society?
     
  5. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    Individual choice often is a root cause. How does racism alone account fully for one's actions? It does not. Sociological studies have been failures in predicting and guiding human behavior.

    If you want to go deeper than just "choice" then I say culture. The culture we grow up in instills in us our values and helps model our behaviors.
     
  6. Timing

    Timing Member

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    Originally posted by Mr. Clutch
    How can you go from saying the Great Society is irrelevant, then you go and post something that shows that after being stable for 8 years, the black (and white) family structure crumbled? Just because the rate of black single families was also higher in the 1880's doesn't mean that the 1960's had much worse effects in this particular area.

    The ratios have been identical for 130 years. Since your Great Society argument didn't cause any more change in black single parent families than white single parent families then it's irrelevant. Plus, you say it's the Great Society that caused the change and I'd say it's women's rights. The fact that divorce up to that point was discouraged and women, liberated and emboldened, no longer had to stay in marriages they didn't want to be in. Either way, the cause is irrelevant since the ratios have always been the same.

    In regards to this specific things we are talking about- crime, single parent homes, yes I think the '60s had more of an effect. If we talk about wealth, then slavery and racism had more of an effect. Your own post backs up that the amount single parent homes exploded after the 60's, not because of slavery. Kids who are raised by single parents have higher rates of poor education, crime, etc.

    Since poverty is a root cause of crime and welfare, then we're back to square one which is what is the cause of poverty in the black community. The rise in the 60's did nothing to change the ratios so it's irrelevant. What caused the ratios starting in 1880?

    I didn't state that Spanish is the sole reason, but it's one of them. It keeps young Hispanics from learning our culture and succeeding it. If a Hispanic immigrant does not teach his kids English, how far do you think his kids will go in our society?

    It absolutely does not keep Hispanics from succeeding and your point is exaggerated. There are few if any children who grow to adulthood in this country who don't speak English. I'd also say that Asians are far more sheltered from American culture in this country and they don't seem to have a problem.
     
  7. Friendly Fan

    Friendly Fan PinetreeFM60 Exposed

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    after reading the thread title again, I wonder why no one has posted the obligatory, Olympic chant:



    U-S-A
    U-S-A
    U-S-A
    U-S-A
    U-S-A
     
  8. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Nope. Look at my prior post. I specifically say that it exaggerates the discrepancy. I am not dismissing race as a factor, rather I am pointing out that economic position is also a large factor.
     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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  10. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    I guess the ;) is indicating you are just trolling, but still can't let it go unanswered.

    We are the best. Doesn't mean perfect. Doesn't mean we shouldn't be happy to say we're the best.
     

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