Black people who are poor are more likely so than others because the'yve historically had opportunities denied them and their families *because* they were black. To say that they're not victims of their skin color but rather they're just poor is dumb but I know it won't stop some from saying it. You want to point to economics and education as the factors for the discrepancies when in fact they are simply a tip of iceberg sympton of something else. Once we establish the something else for what it is, then it certainly indicates why all things being equal police and the justice system treat the races differently. And if you don't believe the system treats the races differently simply on the basis of race then I have some WMD in an Iraqi bunker that I want to sell you.
I think we can all agree that, whether the reason is primarily the way minorities are treated by our justice system, or whether it's the repercussions of socioeconomic/educational disparity based on race, that racism plays the dominant role behind the discrepency in these numbers. Unless you want to re-visit eugenics... The Land of The Free... Another aspect to our country often overlooked or dismissed by those who still proudly maintain that we are the best, and shouldn't be ashamed to say it...
Fill the prisons with non-violent offenders and your prison is easy to manage and profitable Good point. I knew an otherwise law abiding guy who did time in TDC and also the Corrections Corportion of America facility, a for profit prison here in Houston. He said they put all the non-violent drug guys like him in the same uhits, hence no violence. The guards knew what was going on. Basically just a big waste of time for a bunch of ordinary guys who normally work and support their families. I guess another positive side effect is that enables conservative types, both Demos and Repubs to create artificially low unemployment rates to make them look good. It also provides jobs for the guards.
Nope, that's not something we can agree on. Not even close! I think the dominant role in the numbers is the people committing the crimes.
http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/01/penalty/capitaltx.pdf Less education has a greater correlation to being on Death Row than race in Texas. Not that I like these types of statistical arguements because I don't know if they really did it.
I agree with you. In that case, we should spend more money to educate our people than we do incarcerating them. That would be a nice change.
The people on death row didn't kill people because they dropped out of school in the 7th grade. While there is a correlation bewteen lack of education and being on death row, lack of education is not the cause. Committing heinous crimes and dropping out of school are functions of the same tortured life most of them have lived. I don't defend them for the evil they do. They still have a choice, and they chose wrong. But they didn't get on death row because they never graduated from high school. On the topic of imprisonment, Blacks are targeted, and it's not right. There is a political component: the more black men convicted, the fewer black men voting every election. It has disenfranchised probably a million black men.
I agree with you that it is not a direct cause and effect thing (ie. a person commits murder because they didn't graduate), but it is true that education reduces one's predisposition to all kinds of crime, not just murder. In any case, we should spend more money educating our people than we do incarcerating them.
Hold on there Mister! If you are suggesting that individuals should be held responsible for their decisions, then who will be labled the victim- crime victims???? That won't fly in modern America!
The root cause is the difference in who law enforcement arrests, who the prosecutors prosecute, and how the judges and juries sentence. That race plays a role in that process is certain. whites and blacks do illegal drugs in the same percentages, but blacks get arrested more. we were talking about the reason there is a huge disparity between blacks, whites and browns in prison. targeting, that's why. is there more crime among blacks and hispanics on average? yes, but not that much.
I don't think many people are suggesting that individuals not be punished for their illegal actions. I believe, however, that many people think that the reasons why someone behaves the way they do are very important in attempting to curb illegal behavior. There's also nothing wrong in demanding that people be punished similarly for committing the same crimes.
The problem I have with people who look at root causes is that they think it is wrong to "blame the victim." In other words, it's considered wrong to look cultural traits of the groups who have the problems. Everyhing has to be blamed on the powerful, the rich, the majority, or some other group, and IMO that doesn't get us to the source of the problem.
I'm sure some feel that way, but I'd have to strongly disagree with you if you feel that all people who desire to look at root causes don't blame the person in addition to feeling that discovering the root causes for these actions could possibly help deter future actions.
Many criminals I bet would come from 1 parent homes. Education and studying hard are not valued by peers (this one came from an African American professor, who promptly offended many black families who were looking for an answer). "Street cred" is valued. (Note: This isn't about only African Americans however, it applies across the board, to poor Hispanics and whites also). When people start talking about "root causes" here are they things they always come up with: 1. Power- The people don't have a voice. The powerful oppress them. If only they had more freedom everything would be wonderful. 2. Economics- No doubt it is a factor, but please don't act as if America doesn't provide boundless opportunites for people to make a very good living. 3. Racism- Of course, this always comes up as an explanation, but I doubt it has as much influence these days. Those 3 reasons are unbelievably inadequate in explaining why there is persistent poverty and crime.
Originally posted by Mr. Clutch Many criminals I bet would come from 1 parent homes. Education and studying hard are not valued by peers (this one came from an African American professor, who promptly offended many black families who were looking for an answer). "Street cred" is valued. (Note: This isn't about only African Americans however, it applies across the board, to poor Hispanics and whites also). Single parent homes and the value of education are cultural traits? Okay, under what situations was African-American culture formed? In other words, what helps and helped to form black culture in America? Why is it the way it is?
