Well, well, well...

Clyde was a sg. Francis is a pg. The fact that Clyde averaged almost as many assists is telling enough. You can't just post their stats and tell me Francis is comparable to Clyde - give me a break, this is a HOFer we're talking about here. It goes beyond turnover numbers. Let's talk about Francis making good decisions in crunch time. Let's talk about Francis getting the ball into the post. Let's talk about capitalizing on fastbreak opportunities, controlling tempo, knowing when to run. Let's talk about keeping composure, knowing how to deal with a press. Let's talk about not ignoring your big man for 5 minutes in crunch time when he has 30 points. These are things that don't show up in the stats, things that Clyde Drexler did.

 

20.6.and6

 

He is one of the great young talents in the NBA and the history of sports. -LA

 

20.6.and6

The only thing unusual about the 20/6/6 is the rebounds. So, Francis might get 3 more rebounds/game than other PGs. Is that enough to offset the bad defense, poor shooting, terrible passing, high turnovers, low BBall IQ and inability to run a fast break or handle pressure?

I think what Doc's trying to point out is that Francis isn't really special at any one thing. 20 pts is good, but hardly makes you an elite scorer. 6 assists is pretty low for a PG. The only real differentiator is that he's one of the two best rebounding PGs in the league. If Steve was still making $3.5M, then that would be good value. At $11M , we're not getting our money's worth.

 

Summer Song,

20 pts., 6 rbs. and 6 assists were the norm. But here were the consequences:

(1) Steve had carte blanche to shoot whenever he wanted and go iso at his whim;

(2) Steve rebounded to the detriment of the fast break (when a guard is rebounding too much they can't lead a break - big men, not guards, are supposed to throw the outlet pass); and

(3) Six assists to more than 4.5 turnovers isn't worth jackmofo**** and you know it!

Get off Steve Francis' bandwagon you groupie! Even the Allen Iverson fans know that, to quote Michael Ray Richardson, the ship be sinkin' when Francis is at the helm of the offense.

As crappy as Steve Francis is playing, we're still better off without him as the team leader. We should trade him to a bad team so you can watch him put up 20 pts., 6 rbs. and 6 assists (with 4.5 TOs/gm.) during the season and so you can live your dream of hanging out with him in a bar to watch the playoffs when he comes back to visit Houston.

-P1st, S2nd

 

Van Gundy wants yin with star Yao

The Rockets' first-year coach plans to revamp offense around his center, whether guard Steve Francis likes it or not.

BY ISRAEL GUTIERREZ

igutierrez@herald.com


So what's new with last year's ''it'' rookie?

For starters, Yao Ming, last year's No. 1 draft pick, has a new coach. And really, that's all that matters right now.

Rudy Tomjanovich stepped down after learning he had bladder cancer, which he has since beaten, and was replaced this summer by former Knicks coach Jeff Van Gundy.

The no-nonsense coach returned to the sideline after a 22-month layoff to help the Rockets return to the playoffs. And that means turning Yao into a presence, not just a personality.

Last season, Yao averaged a respectable 13.5 points and 8.2 rebounds. For Yao to be truly effective in Van Gundy's inside-out system, he will have to increase those numbers.

''One of the things I've been able to do is feature my best players to get their best shots in their best spots,'' Van Gundy said. ``You want to be an efficient offensive team and an effective offensive team.''

Efficient and effective were not exactly buzzwords with the Houston offense while Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley were the primary contributors. The two were practically given free reign the past few years under Tomjanovich.

TONING IT DOWN?

So if Yao is to be at his most effective, the popular notion is Francis will have to cut down on his offense. That might be difficult to do for a player who was labeled ''Stevie Franchise'' before he scored a basket for the Rockets.

'Everybody was saying, `they're taking the ball out of Steve's hands. They're doing this or that,' '' Francis said. ``I wasn't worried one bit.''

That was Francis' approach at the start of training camp. Since then, there has been a slight change of tone. Van Gundy has been critical of the Rockets' effort entering the season, even pointing out Francis' flaws.

''There's not one area that's not even close to good enough,'' Van Gundy said. ``It starts with our effort. We don't play hard enough to win. We're not adapting to change. There are a few pockets of resistance. I do know what a winning team looks like and what a losing team looks like. I've been fortunate to be part of winning teams for a long time.

``We should all be on the clock. Really, the clock is ticking for us to win and to show progress and improvement. I don't want to hear how long it will take to jell. Those are excuses. Those are for people not ready to win. I don't want the guys to be given that excuse or to take it.

``Steve, offensively right now [is] trying to hit the home run every time down. Steve is sometimes so great he can hit a home run, to shake somebody and take on another guy and take tough shots. The game's got to be easier. We're not playing team offense the right way. Blown play after play, assignment after assignment.''

The obvious assumption, then, is that the ''pockets of resistance'' include Francis, who was perfectly happy with the previous system where he was free to display his talents at will.

RESISTANCE TO CHANGE

''I've been playing the same way for five years,'' Francis said. ``The part of me going one-on-one when the shot clock is going down, that's what I got to do. I'm not going to throw the ball to a seven-foot guy on the three-point line if I can do something at the end of the shot clock. If that's what it is, that's what it is.''

Although Francis has been playing the same way for five years, he has missed the playoffs every time. So if Van Gundy is going to turn the franchise around, he plans on turning less to ''The Franchise'' and more toward ''The Dynasty,'' fighting off any resistance along the way.

''You always play to the strength of your players,'' Van Gundy said. ``But I think every good team in the NBA plays inside-out basketball.

``Certainly, balanced teams win and teams that can score the ball from the perimeter and from the paint are ones that win.''

 

So name me five other pgs who average 20/6/3 then since only the three boards are unusual. Better yet where does that 20/6/3 place Steve among all NBA players? Hell, I'll give ya the three rebounds,

Steve has been on bad teams since he came into the league and he is not Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan in that he can carry a team by himself but he has been there and been one of the bright spots on those teams and to toss him aside now that we are starting to reach some of the goals we have set for this team is messed up. I'll also concede that his talents may not mesh very well with the new direction the offense is going but to bash him and completely disrespect him is also messed up.

 

As Morgan Freeman’s character Ellis “Red” Redding said in The Shawshank Redemption, “Some birds aren't meant to be caged. Their feathers are just too bright.” Steve Francis is that bird, and the cage is Jeff Van Gundy's ultra-conservative offense. And now Warden Norton needs to put his ego aside and realize that unless he’s going to run out on the court and get slugged in the face, no one wants to watch his boring ass. It’s time to set Steve Francis free.

http://www.instant-replays.com/disenfranchised.html

 

That first quote from Jeff is hallarious. If he's been able to set up his best players for success, can someone explain to me how he could screw Steve Francis' game up so bad?

 

He's killed it dawg, it wouldn't be too hard to let Steve run the ISO five times a game. I'd rather see that than Steve dribble down and dump it to Cato or Weatherspoon.

 

Summer Song Giver: Would you consider it tossing him aside and disrespecting him if he gets to go to a team where he is the main man and the offense is structured around him ala Rudyball? Seems to me he'd actually prefer that circumstance.

 

Jeff Gundy:

If you're the author of the article to which the link in your signature took me, and if you wrote that Steve Francis is "a player with textbook skills," then you ate too much glue in kindergarten.

Steve Francis is the antithesis of a prototypical, textbook basketball player, in terms of knowledge and instinctive capability to play the game, much less a point guard.

I miss watching those flashy moves, but I like winning better.

-P1st, S2nd

 

No, I am not the author of the article. I just found it very funny and relevant to some of the questions being asked in this thread.

Here are so more quotes that are relevant and somewhat funny looking back on them.

http://www.nba.com/rockets/news/Steve_Francis_Signing_Transcri-52041-34.html

 

You need to re-read my post. You're leaving out the part where I said :

"I think what Doc's trying to point out is that Francis isn't really special at any one thing."

I was pointing out that there's nothing special about any one of those categories except for rebounding. He's a max guy, yet he's not an elite scorer, he's a lousy assist guy, but he's a great rebounding PG. Is that worthy of being a max guy? The only real skill of his that is special is his rebounding. But are those 3 rebounds offset all of the things that he does poorly?

You say that "he is not Kevin Garnett or Tim Duncan in that he can carry a team by himself", yet in another thread you say
"Open your eyes Steve has LEAD this team to every win we've gotten this season, all the other players could do is tag along."

Which is it?

The most interesting thing you said was "I'll also concede that his talents may not mesh very well with the new direction the offense is going but to bash him and completely disrespect him is also messed up".

Let's discuss that.

So, you do concede that Francis doesn't mesh with the new direction of the team. So, then what do you suggest that we do? Keep him around at $11M per year or trade him for players that do mesh well. Are you for or against trading Francis? Forget about the perceived bashing. Do you think that we should keep a max player that doesn't fit into our system?

 

Wow, Scarface is back. Where the heck have you been?

 

No, believe it or not I want what's best for the Rox; Steve Francis be damned but the treatment he recieves here is unwarranted especially considering the way he has played this year in a system that is completely foreign to him.

I am as tired of watching the product the Rox field on alot of nights as all of you are I'm just not as willing to put all the blame on Steve's lack of point gaurd skills as the rest of you are. I fear that trading Steve for a player who is an undeniable better fit in our system will not be the quick fix that many of you feel it will be.

In a perfect world JVG needs to figure a way to better utilize the talents we already possess instead of sacrificing talent for style.

 

Again, what does this have anything to do with talent or utilizing talents? Do fastbreak points and the sanctity of taking care of the ball not mean anything to anyone anymore? I feel like a broken record. It's not even about Stevie scoring anymore. Does it not bother you that we can't break a press?

 

Fine I see all of the points for trading Steve, I'll concede. If he is traded that team will automatically become my second favorite team. No more pro Steve arguments from me.