I agree with you Nick. There are only two players I would trade Steve Francis for, Okafor or Elton Brand.
Cabbage- okay, I checked the stats and here are Steve and Clyde head to head: Francis Drexler mins. 39.61 36.72 fg% 43.06 44.52 ft% 79.01 78.53 3% 34.64 33.86 fouls 229 147 dq 3 .25 reb 6.16 6.11 ast 6.33 5.44 stls 1.61 1.88 blks .43 .57 tos 3.69 2.59 pts 19.41 18.97 All props to Clyde, but Steve's numbers have been every bit as good as the Glyde's even factoring in Steve bad play this year. Considering the fact that he played the 2, Clyde was almost as bad a to machine as Steve. Also, I dont see any more reliability in Clyde's outside shot than Steve's (I'll give Steve the advantage just b/c of how ugly Clyde's double kick was)
okafor is interesting, okafor plus a 2nd rounder for steve francis sounds like a good deal. but it'll never happen.
What's the deal with Brand... is he looking to force a trade? With his contract, the numbers might actually add up. With Okafor, unfortunatley, the team trading him will have to pony up more $$$ in players to match Steve's contract. Personally, I'd much rather have Okafor because of his up-side, but Brand is an established player in this leauge... and would fill the role just as well if not better. A Brand/Yao frontcourt would be a defensive NIGHTMARE for all teams.
A running back who rushes for 200 yards. Turns it over 3 times...what usually happens...his team loses if the other team plays mediocre but solid football. A quarter back passes for 500 yards. Throws 3 interceptions...ditto. I can live with everything that Steve Francis does. We can win in spite of them. But we can't win consistently, if he turns it over. There are players that turned the corner with respect to this...most prominently Jason Williams from Memphis. Do I have too much faith that SF will turn it around? Most people think so. Steve needs the chance to prove all his critics wrong. We're not giving him that chance...I'll reserve negative judgment...until we're ousted from the first round of the playoffs!
Showing just the stats like that doesn't tell the whole story. Especially Drexler. Drexler actually IMPROVED as time when on...and ended up averaging for career: 20.4ppg, 5.6apg, while shooting 47%. He also had a very low turnover rate: around 2.7. And, he was a SHOOTING GUARD. So, there's no reason to expect Clyde to get anymore assist than he already achieved (5.6) due to his SG role on the court. I mean, heck...Cylde was a better PG than Francis is today based on the fact that Cylde didn't make clueless turnovers. Also, what did you mean when you said that "Cylde was almost as bad a TO machine as Steve?" Do you realize how much a difference there is between 3.7 TOG and 2.7 TOG? It's not just 1.0. It's an average, and that average shows up greatly in court play. It's about consistency and knowing when and when not to make passes. It's the difference between giving up points and getting points. It's the difference between unforced turnovers vs forced. The ability to NOT hurt your team compared to how much you help the team. The lower turnover rate a player has the more consistent that statistic will be, game after game. That means that you could count on Clyde to keep his TO low, every game he played in; or at least keep it around 2.7. CONSISTENTLY. Francis? You never know what he'll do. Sometimes he'll have 1 turnover one game, but then go and ruin it by going for 5,6,7 turnover the next three games. Considering his pattern, that's why he stays around 3.7 TOPG. It's erratic and broad. I just happens to end up as 3.7, because he'll have a LOW TO game once in a while.
Steve in a nutshell. Late in the game, GS at the free throw line and they miss BOTH freethrows. Oakley has the rebound...what does Steve do? He jumps in trying for the glory and screws up the play and GS gets the ball back gets fouled and makes both FT making it a 7 point game instead of 5. Typical Steve, going in hell bent without a fricken clue.... Dumb....dumb...dumb. DD
I don't have a problem with trading Steve, but I would hate for the Rockets to settle for someone like Hinrich given the other players he would be packaged with from the Bulls to make the trade work under the cap. He's got Andre Miller potential and Steve is better from an all-around talent stand point than either of them. Steve is having an off year, but I think he has shown himself to be a solid outside shooter with the ability to drive to the basket. He hustles, stays healthy and has as much athletic ability as any player in the league. He can be a franchise cornerstone if that franchise is committed to a more wide open system. Somebody that can average 20/7/7 is not someone that you trade for a merely solid player like Hinrich, even if that new player would fit the current system better. I think the Rockets should trade Steve to get A-level talent in return. Someone like Ray Allen, or Elton Brand would do nicely, and might be available this off-season.
Yeah, but it was because of Steve that we even had a chance to be back in the game. He finally came alive in the end and made the game exciting again, BUT like you said that stupid move by him (jumping into Oakley) was terrible. Maybe SF didn't trust Oak with the rb. I don't know. That was a heart breaker though. Those 3's by SF were huge....but we came up short.
Not that I don't neccessarily agree with alot of these "trade steve" sentiments but isn't Steve the most popular person in houston?
Steve Francis has never averaged more than 6.6 assists, and when he did that it came with 4 TO's. You say he's a solid outsde shooter with the ability to drive to the basket. So now he's shooting 29% from the 3, and his ability to drive to the basket has been removed. Now what?
Scar, He did not need to come in for the rebound, his teamate already had it. He should have been on the wing waiting for Oaks outlet. DD
sydmill Francis and Clyde may have similar stats, but that is where the difference ends. Steve can only play the one. (And is not a very effective at running the point). Clyde could play thee different positions. The 3, 2 or 1. Clyde liked to run. He would put his head down, and it was off to the races. One of the best open court players in the game at running the fast break. His ability to run the fast break would mean an extra 4 to 10 points a game. Steve can't run a fast break. That costs the team at least 4 to 6 points a game. How many times have you watched the game, where Steve Cat don't finish off a fast break, and end waiting for everyone to come back down the court to set up another play. Horrible. Clyde could post up. Meaning he could be used in many different ways, and different types of plays could be run for him. Steve likes to play one on one. Meaning only one type of play can be called for him. When Clyde ran the point, he was alot more effective than Steve is at running the point. Clyde averaged 5.6 assists playing mostly the 2. In seasons when he played more at the one, Clyde averaged 8 assists a game. In the 87 season, Clyde averaged 7 assists a game w terry Porter averaging 9 assists per game. There were seasons when Kenny smith averaged 7 assists per game. Steve has never averaged more than 6 and 1/2 assists per game, playing only the point. sydmill If you want to compare apples to oranges, that fine. But to get a better perspective, lets compare apples to apples. Steve is paid a max contact. We should expect him to perform like a max player. Lets compare Steve to other Point guards that were the primary offensive option. Lets compare Steve to Isiah, or Magic. How does Steve compare to those two guys in assists per game. Isiah, averaged 19 points per game, and averaged 9 assists per game for his career. From NBA.com "Seven Pistons averaged more than 13.5 points, a tribute to Thomas' unselfishness and slick playmaking." How about Magic, Averaged 19 points per game, 12 assists per game, and 52% for his career. Plus they were both winners. Plus I think Want to compare Francis to former Rocket point guards, Lucas or even Murphy, it can be said they did a much better job of running the team. There is a huge difference between a good player, and a good point guard. Francis is a very talented athletic player, that happens to be horrible point guard. Most importantly, Clyde is a player who adapted this game for the betterment of the team and played within the system the coach had implemented. After Clyde was traded to Houston, a lot of people said Hakeems scoring would go down, or Clydes scoring would go down, but Hakeem continued to score 25+ points a game, and Clyde continued to score 20 points a game. Clyde’s game did not cause Hakeems game to to suffer, Second. Clyde was immediately able to molde, and accommodated his game to the system the team was using, and the team went on to win the Finals that year. Steve has had a year and half to adapt his game, and still has not come full circle. His game comes at the expense of players on the team. That is not the mark of a good point gaurd. I couldn't agree with dd or cabage more.
