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Well well well... Who was that with 11 points/7 rebounds and a block tonight??

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by The Cat, Oct 24, 2000.

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  1. Clutch

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    Ex-Rocket Larry Robinson? No... he had 10 and 5 in less minutes than that.

    Ex-Rocket Don MacLean? No... he had 12 points, 4 boards and 4 assists in less minutes.

    Ex-Rocket Sam Mitchell? No... he had 12 points and 5 assists in less minutes.

    Ex-Rocket Tracy Murray? No... he had 14 points and 5 boards in less minutes.

    Ex-Rocket Eduardo Najera? No... he had 11 points and 5 boards in less minutes.

    Passed-on Rocket Jamaal Magloire? No... he had 10 points and 9 boards in less minutes.

    11-7-1... not a clue. I give up -- who was it? [​IMG]

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    #21 Clutch, Oct 24, 2000
  2. Ace

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    Guys,

    The main point The Cat is making is that we cannot, under any circumstance, evaluate a player after one game.

    The Cat, as somewhat of a Collier supporter, simply illustrated this point by doing the same thing after one good game from Collier.

    He's not saying he's good, nor is he saying he's bad. He's simply saying that the jury is still out. Just as it's impossible to label a player bad after one horrible game, so is it impossible to label a player good after once decent performance.

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    #22 Ace, Oct 24, 2000
  3. SamCassell

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    Clutch, touche. [​IMG]

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    #23 SamCassell, Oct 24, 2000
  4. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    Clutch-

    Yeah I know. I'm not the one trying to evaluate guys after one game though remember. [​IMG]

    As a matter of fact, that brings me to something else. I remember two or three consecutive games last year in which Rockets superstar Steve Francis did not manage to hit even one field goal in 30+ minutes a game. Somehow I don't think his career is over? [​IMG]

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    #24 The Cat, Oct 24, 2000
  5. FrancisFan

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    #25 FrancisFan, Oct 24, 2000
  6. Ace

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    I understand the point you are trying to make, but I don't think we can even pull judgement after just the preseason. I mean, Collier is still trying to find his place in the team, and as MManal already mentioned he could be effective through his play in certain defensive scenarios.

    Let's just wait a few months before we pull conclusions.

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    #26 Ace, Oct 24, 2000
  7. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    I want you to take a VERY VERY close look at something. See that minutes column on the left? How the heck is he supposed to contribute so greatly in 6 minutes per night, etc.? First of all, Collier is the type of guy who isn't instant offense exactly- it's better to get him into the flow. But even if he wasn't that way, it's impossible to play guys for that little and expect big results. Let them get into the flow of the game. This is the first time he's really gotten into the game, gotten warmed up and ready, all that stuff like that. It was his first game also of over 20 minutes, and I like his productivity. Showing me stats for when he plays 5-10 minutes in a game pretty much is unreflective on a player's true value.

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    #27 The Cat, Oct 24, 2000
  8. FrancisFan

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    Do you think that the Rockets can wait a few months for him?


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    #28 FrancisFan, Oct 24, 2000
  9. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    Listen. Collier is a pick for the future. Right now, when Dream comes back, he is a 3rd string center right now. Nothing more. We are bringing him along slowly so he can learn a lot in practice, get him some game situations like tonight, and basically give him time to get adjusted to the NBA game. When Dream goes down (if he does) this season, and after he retires, THEN he will be needed to contribute nightly off the bench as a backup big man who can provide some offensive punch, and by that time I think he'll be well ready. We have a TON of time for Collier- we don't need to rush him, and we won't.

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    #29 The Cat, Oct 25, 2000
  10. FrancisFan

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    When Collier played against San Antonio (the one where he missed two key free throws) he played 17 min and scored four points and got only four rebounds. And he made 0-2 free throws.

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    #30 FrancisFan, Oct 25, 2000
  11. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    OK genius- first of all, stats don't reflect the whole story. He was boxing out and defending pretty well as I understand it that game. However, two things. First of all, 17 minutes still isn't that many. Second though, you STILL DO NOT UNDERSTAND MY ORIGINAL POINT!!! IT WAS ONE GAME! Can you get that?

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    #31 The Cat, Oct 25, 2000
  12. FrancisFan

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    I counted 6 bad games, lets not even talk about the RMR (I know he was hurt in the RMR).
    I understand that he is a project but I don't think that you pick a project in the first round.

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    #32 FrancisFan, Oct 25, 2000
  13. SmeggySmeg

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    Cat,

    I agree rookies, especially those not drafted in the first 10 should be given time to develop and time to be evaluated, just as you cannot say a player is a star after one great preseason (ie Cato last year) you also cannot say one player is hopeless after one preseason.

    Nice game Collier.

    Smegma

    PS Cat, Collier seems to have taken over the role of "everyone must criticise straight away" from Mobley from last season. So everyone just remember a year ago everyone was consistantly ripping his game and now they have all backflipped and love the man.

    Patience All

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    #33 SmeggySmeg, Oct 25, 2000
  14. FrancisFan

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    I'm eagerly waiting to say that Collier was a good pick for the Rockets but I don't think that he is from what I saw so far.

    Collier still hasn't played against a premier center yet so if he burns one of them I will be ther first to say that I judged him to early and I made a huge mistake.



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    #34 FrancisFan, Oct 25, 2000
  15. The Cat

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    How are you supposed to put up good numbers when you play between 5-10 minutes per game in most of them? I was actually impressed with Collier in several of the games, but it is impossible to show up in the box score because he did not play enough minutes.

    You pick the best player available for your team in the first round. Rudy did not feel that any of the guys still available at our pick would be more valuable than Jason Collier and a pick long-term, so he made the deal. Rudy knows what he's doing a lot more than you guys do. Give Collier and Rudy a chance, and I think you will be surprised.

    Smeg,

    Excellent references with Cato and Mobley. Beware though that someone here will try and find some (totally incorrect) flaw and then act like they know everything, so be ready. [​IMG]

    Smeg may have also summed up all of what I've been trying to say in two words: Patience all. Don't jump on/off the bandwagon after a game or so. Just be patient and give Rudy and Collier a chance before you rush to judgment.

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    #35 The Cat, Oct 25, 2000
  16. The Cat

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    Collier isn't viewed by Rudy as our center of the future. That is Cato. Collier is supposed to be a good backup big man that can provide a good change of pace and spark off the bench. I emphasize the words BACKUP. Cato is our starting center for the future. He'll be going against these premier centers. Now tell me, what premier centers are backups, and in turn will often play against Collier? I know that from time to time Collier will be called upon to start and play these big time guys. But hardly anyone lights up the premier centers, and most of the time he will NOT be matched up with them anyway.

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    #36 The Cat, Oct 25, 2000
  17. Dr of Dunk

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    His FG% may have something to do with it, but that's just a guess.

    And there are still some Mobley bashers out there Smeg. Can ya believe it? They still exist!!! Unreal.

    *cough*
    *cough*

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    #37 Dr of Dunk, Oct 25, 2000
  18. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    The Cat,

    I didn't think you'd have the guts to post it, but I gotta give ya credit, you did. Hahaha!!!

    Man, already 34 posts in the thread. Sick.

    [​IMG]

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    #38 Dr of Dunk, Oct 25, 2000
  19. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    DOD,

    What's funny is that out of all of these replies, I still haven't gotten one response by the primary Collier bashers I was referring to. [​IMG]

    (You can come out of hiding guys, we know you're there [​IMG])

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    #39 The Cat, Oct 25, 2000
  20. DrNuegebauer

    DrNuegebauer Member

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    Let's talk about this years draft;
    Project#1: Darius Miles (selected 3rd)
    Project#2: Dermarr Johnson (selected 6th)
    Project#3: Jamal Crawford (selected 7th)
    Project#4: Chris Mihm (selected 8th)
    Project#5: Joel Pryzbilla (selected 9th)

    That's 5 players selected as projects from the lottery!
    What's so bad about selecting a guy at #15 as a project? Tell me another player who was drafted AFTER Collier who will fit the Rockets needs (those needs being a center who rebounds hard and sets a strong pick witha limited post game).


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    #40 DrNuegebauer, Oct 25, 2000
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