Well, waddya know? Saddam really IS trying to build nukes...

Originally posted by NJRocket
I asked for you solution.

Are you implying that the Israeli response is a 'solution'?

I didnt say every Palestinian was responsible for this or that.

But it seems that you are ready and willing to punish all. You ask me for a solution, but that's not really relevant. The issue is whether the Israeli response is morally 'right', which I believe it isn't. It will also not achieve the intended results.

I asked you what would you do if this was your neighborhood and you knew that these people hated you for no reason whatsoever.

It's irrelevant whether they 'hate' me, I wouldn't condone they're mistreatment.

If it was my neighborhood, I would try to determine how to live in peace with them. I would empathize with their plight, and maybe they can return the empathy and moderates from both sides would need to somehow gain control over their radical factions (i.e. settlers and hamas).

 

Typical "Not in my backyard" answer

Yeah, good idea...because guys with bombs strapped to their backs who can't wait to die are so open to other suggestions

 

Crap. You're perfectly happy to have an entire country - or several countries - completely destroyed and millions of innocent people killed because you're a jingoistic militarist. That's almost a dictionary definition of disdain. I can't believe you're telling Cohen he's giving 'not in my backyard' answers when you're doing precisely the same thing.

 

You've obviously misunderstood me. My message is simple and has been the same since any of these discussions have started. If you make it clear that you hate Americans and you make it clear that Americans are infidels and must die, then I have a major problem with your existance.

 

Oh really?

All these quotes imply to me that you don't, um, give a rat's ass about murdering millions of people as long as you feel safe in New Jersey. If you don't mean it, don't say it. Especially not in *the same thread in which we're posting*!

 

Originally posted by NJRocket
Typical "Not in my backyard" answer

I take it you think I am incapable of sufficient empathy?



Yeah, good idea...because guys with bombs strapped to their backs who can't wait to die are so open to other suggestions

You seem to have great difficulty drawing a distinction between a Palestinian and a Palestinian suicide bomber.

I have no illusions about getting hamas to agree to anything. I also have little confidence that I can talk settlers out of the settlements.

But I do have confidence that I can reason with the average Israeli and Palestinian who want this hell to end. If I didn't retain that confidence, I would have no hope for an end to the crisis.

 

I think this is a key point. The extremists on both sides are getting the lions share of the attention, while the majority of the populations are victims of the actions of a few.

I feel that the Palestinian's have lost the ability the reel in the extremist groups, and that Sharon's party in power IS an extremist group as well.

NJ Rocket, I don't know why you keep talking about Americans as if to equate Israel as another US State.
A land dispute is what is causing this. Not blind hatred.
And let it be known that Muslim and American relations are strained for one and only reason, the unilateral support of Israel.

Palestinian groups hate the Isreali's because of land issues, and have never touched the United States. I think you're manipulating the situation to make it seem as if the Palestinians are just nut cases that hate America and take it out on Israeli's because they are closer. That is just plain ignorance.

I suggest a ground in the middle. Some extremists in Israel want all the lands till Jordan and some Palestinians want all of what is currently Israel and what must be done is these extremist groups must be controlled by the populace to have a peace.

A completely separate state is needed in the occupied territories and the removal of all UN stated "illegal" settlements with Jerusalem as an international city open to all. This cannot be a puppet government with no ability to have a military, rights and no roads dividing the country substantially. Under peace I feel that both cultures can learn much from each other. For over a thousand years, Jews lived free from harm peacefully under muslim rule in the middle east and I think that it can be so once again. Jews and Arabs, if they believe in their religion come from the same father, Abraham, and so they are brothers and should end this fued which started in the 1940's with the creation of Israel and have peace with the Israeli nation and the middle east. I believe one day it will happen and you will see tears of forgiveness in all of their eyes.

 

I like that Khan.

What most people don't realize is that Islam was founded after the Jews had been killed, tortured, enslaved and forbidden to enter Jerusalem by the Roman emperors for over 600 years.

In 66 B.C. Herod and the Roman army took control of Judea and Jerusalem from the Jews.
In 66 A.D., Roman emperor Hadrian made Jerusalem a Roman city.
In 132 A.D., after a Jewish uprising, Roman emperor Constantine renamed it the new capital of Palestine. Roughly, 600,000 Jews were killed by the Roman army.

Finally, in 638 A.D., a few years after Muhammed's revelation, the Muslims took control of Jerusalem and allowed the Jews to return home. This started an era of peace, justice and prosperity.

THEN, in 1095 A.D. the Pope calls for crusades to regain Palestine from the INFIDELS, burning Jews alive in the synagogue, killing the Muslims and banning non-Christians from the city of Jerusalem.

 

Great point to those stating they can never live together in peace. They have for over a fifteen hundred years. Only the last 100 have been pretty rotten.

 

yeah really...all of those quotes we so nicely taken out of various responses and posted together very nicely...well done. My point has been the same since the beginning darling..if you hate Americans because they are Americans, then I have no use for you. Iraq, with its WMD, is a clear threat to the US and our interests. I have a problem with that. If you don't then so be it.

no, but I cannot blame the Israelis who want them out of their neighborhoods altogether because they would rather not take a chance that this Palestinian isn't a threat

 

Full circle...so you condone destroying the shops of innocent Palestinians?

Hmm....

I bet the Palestinians are very concerned about the Israelis living so close. I mean, it's only a matter of time before they want more land and will come destroy the Palestinians' homes and businesses. What's the Palestinians' solution?

 

I condone the expulsion of Palestinians from Israel until the suicide bombings stop....you may not see this as a simple process but its not there are 1 or 2 "bad apples" we are talking about. Israelis are infidels according to MOST, not a few, but MOST Palestinians...especially the ones who still live under middle eastern rule and are exposed to the extremist way of life.

Just like its easy for me to look at the situation and say that its easy to kick them out and deal with it that way, its just as easy for you to suggest that the talk the problem out and try to find a happy medium. At least my solution seems more realistic and logical given the current situation that the "bad" Palestinians created for the "good" Palestinians.

 

Your 'solution', other than morally wrong, is short-sighted. I am 100% certain that your path will lead to the ultimate annihilation of all people in the middle east. Your path leads to growing hatred. That's no resolution. WMD will become increasingly easy for all counties and terrorists to attain. Resolve problems equitably now, or there will be no future for anyone there.


Back to the specifics, 'most' Palestinians are not suicide bombers, just like 'most' Israelis don't bomb Palestinian children in apartment buildings. Thus, the Palestinians civilians don't deserve mistreatment and the Israeli citizens don't deserve suicide bonbers. Any other kind of logic, and you're in trouble.

The majority of Arabs who live under Middle Eastern rule are not extremists, but I would expect a preponderance of extermists who live in the conditions the Palestinians live under, regardless of the causes for those conditions. If you were born under those conditions, how would you act? If your family peacefully eeked out a living on their olive farms for 500 years, then some bulldozers destoryed them and the land was confiscated, how would you feel?

Solutions often occur when each side empathizes with the other. What response would you propose if you were a Palestinian?

 

Excellent posts, by yourself and right1, I wish more people on both sides of this issue felt the same. However, this line is troubling if taken literally, care to clarify it a bit?

 

I didnt say that...i said that most palestinians, especially the ones who live under ME rule, consider Israelis infidels

That supports both of our point Cohen...I dont think that these people grow up being able to comprehend what peace is...and they certainly dont seem to be being taught that Americans and Israelis aren't infidels

I be as pissed as I would be if I found out that Sadaam paid the family who blew up my family a stipend

Look, I don't think my solution is going to solve everything. But I don't see anything else working at the moment. Obviously, a utopia would be to have a "Hands Across Gaza" but it ain;t happening. I'm at a loss to be honest

 

You couldn't be more wrong.

I'm not manipulating anything...this happens to be the case

 

Originally posted by NJRocket
I didnt say that...i said that most palestinians, especially the ones who live under ME rule, consider Israelis infidels

What you said is you are willing to move them all out.

That supports both of our point Cohen...I dont think that these people grow up being able to comprehend what peace is...and they certainly dont seem to be being taught that Americans and Israelis aren't infidels

That does not support your 'solution'.


I be as pissed as I would be if I found out that Sadaam paid the family who blew up my family a stipend

Look, I don't think my solution is going to solve everything. But I don't see anything else working at the moment. Obviously, a utopia would be to have a "Hands Across Gaza" but it ain;t happening. I'm at a loss to be honest

It ain't happenin' with:
1) Two-faced Palestinian leadership;
2) Hawkish Israeli leadership;
3) hamas suicide bombers;
4) Israeli settlers;
5) Arabs who refuse Israel's right to exist;
6) Israeli insistence NOT on doing what's 'right', but on negotiating everything;
7) branding all Palestinians 'guilty';
8) branding all Israelis 'gulty'.

Time to start chipping away at the list, not perpetuating it.

 

this is what is said...

Israelis are infidels according to MOST, not a few, but MOST Palestinians...especially the ones who still live under middle eastern rule and are exposed to the extremist way of life.

which part didn't you understand

it supports my reason for my solution

 

Ding Ding Ding

Round 11: Touch gloves, Begin!

 

You said:

I condone the expulsion of Palestinians from Israel until the suicide bombings stop....

Which part of your post did you not understand?