mc mark, Could a 3 year old find a .40 automatic, load it, chamber a round, and fire it, when the parents are out of the room 'for a few minutes'? This is another case where if a parent would have taken reasonable precautions, a tragedy would have been prevented. A $10 trigger lock, locking the gun up, or leaving it unloaded with the ammunition stored in a different place, would have solved this problem. Anyone with a gun should take basic precautions. Anyone with kids should be even more careful. mrpaige, it is tough to draw that line, but the kids should have spoken up. It's worth noting that the next day, a kid in Houston gave similar threats, which his friends reported. The principal and school's police officer (actually deputy sheriff, I think) confronted the student, took his gun, and resolved the matter without incident. Encouraging students to look for the warning signs is probably the most effective tool they have for combating school violence. Even if the kid doesn't have a gun, or doesn't intend to kill someone, the fact they made the threat could indicate that they need help -- and some counseling could prevent a future incident. ------------------ Stay Cool...
Let me guess NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED We are so f*cking cynical . . .if someone does something out of the goodness of his heart and it goes awry [or not] It either: 1. They had alterior motives 2. They foolish to me . .that is the truly sad part of your comment Sam Rocket River not a diss. . . because that was my initial thought too. ------------------
You're right. He deserved to be stabbed. And any woman who walks alone at night deserves to be raped. I'm not sure Jesus would agree with you. Perhaps this man was acting out of faith. I don't know. I'd say in the final analysis, he was pretty smart to have a gun for protection. That's why he's alive now, after all. Yes. That's why I said you do. And I used to drink and drive every night. I took for granted that getting a DUI was something that happened to other people. I was lucky enough to change my ways before I became the other person. Then the purpose of your last post was what, piling on? Don't you think the couple whose child shot himself feel remorse for not taking the proper precautions? Do you think your told-you-so jabbering is of any help whatsoever? In my opinion, not owning a gun is for the spineless. And I have thought the issue through very, very carefully, so your intellectual condescension amuses me greatly. Next you'll probably tell me that buying a Honda Accord for its reliability is for the weak-minded, too. I mean, I took a precaution in buying one of those, didn't I?
dc I totally agree. So if someone is going to own a gun; why are gun owners so adamant against mandatory gunlock laws? ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
That's just ridiculous. I agree with your post mrpaige. People have to have somebody to blame, right? May as well be those kids.
Because I don't HAVE children and I don't particularly want to have to unlock the damned gun before I blow a burglar's head off. I mean, really, what business is it of yours or anyone else's if I keep my gun locked? [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited March 08, 2001).]
Excuse me, sir, are you Mr. Charles Harris? Harris: Yes....why yes I am! Sir, why are you such a dumbass? Pick up hitchhikers and take them home for a meal. Do you have a death wish? Harris: No....I had a gun nearby. Good thing I don't have kids to worry about or they would have accidentally shot themselves already. -------------------------------------------- As far as who should and should not own guns, that is debatable. But, everyone knows that the only kids who wind up shooting themselves or their friends are kids who find Mom or Dad's gun because THEY OWN A GUN. Kids are not stupid. You can lock a gun up and still not claim this is safe. Any kid knows how to get a hold of Dad's keys, get the key to the gun locker, and gain access if they really want to. What's really ironic is all the very young kids in the news that just happen to find a gun under a pillow or loose in Mom or Dad's room and end up accidentally discharging the weapon where it almost always ends in death. What...Mom and Dad thought it was safe to have a handgun in the bedroom under a pillow thinking my kid could never meander in here, find the gun, and play with it. DUH!!!!! I don't own a gun. Would I like to own a gun for protection on my own turf? Maybe...but I have to weigh the risk factor if I have kids. Which is more likely? A robber breaking in and me using a gun to stop him with force OR my kid(s) finding my gun and either accidentally discharging it OR taking it to school to off some bullies? I would have to go with the latter based on the statistics. If you can't own a gun and be responsible, then you have no business owning a gun period. Just because you know how to fire a gun is not good enough. You have to take all the steps necessary to secure the gun...not just put it on the upper shelf in your bedroom closet. But, if you do that, then you don't have access to the gun when a robber breaks into your home to defend yourself with. So, then you have to ask what good is it owning a gun? Do what I do...I have a nice, big axe next to my bed. I also have a small hand axe. Now, most robbers don't come in your house brandishing guns. They are there to steal so they have empty hands. Take the axe and let her rip on that mo fo. Of course, that is if my dogs don't rip him a new arsehole first. Instead of a gun, how about buying a big dog that is good around kids but can defend the property. I seriously doubt the dog is going to kill the kid. Whatever....my point is you own guns and have kids, be responsible. You have to lock them up and make sure the key is nowhere to be found. Otherwise, be like all of the stupid Americans who lose kids every day to either accidental shootings or school shootings or whatever. THERE IS NO EXCUSE IF THE GUN CAME FROM MOM OR DAD...THEY DID NOT DO ENOUGH TO SECURE THE GUN...PERIOD. Let them live with the remorse and guilt. It is much deserved. Now, if the kid used a blow torch to access the gun safe, well then it is the kid's fault and his alone. So many deaths in this world could be prevented but, due to careless parenting, they are not. Surf ------------------
Because I don't HAVE children and I don't particularly want to have to unlock the damned gun before I blow a burglar's head off. Are guns safer than cigarette lighters? I don't HAVE children, but it is impossible for me to buy a non-child-proof cigarette lighter.
No it isn't. Go to a tobacco store and buy an old fashioned silver-colored metal Zippo. Add ligther fluid and a flint, and viola!...a cigarette lighter without a child-proof lock on it! ------------------ "Blues is a Healer" --John Lee Hooker
You CANNOT 100% child proof anything GUNS CARS POISONS anything . . . .you can only try YOU KNOW . . . PARENTS HAVE ENOUGH TROUBLE and WE DON'T DO SH*T BUT PILE MORE ON THEM WE NOT TRYING TO HELP PARENTS we attack them but offer nothing to help Maybe we should start a thread about solution Realistic solution BAN ALL GUNS IMO is not realistic Rocket River ------------------
Oh, this makes sense. You're also not likely to have to try to quickly use your cigarette lighter to fend off an attacker. There's a significant difference between adding a tiny bit of requisite dexterity to the process of lighting a cigarette and adding several crucial moments to the process of firing a gun in self-defense.
In defense of all of the "stupid Americans" with children and guns: Death Statistics, 1998 Gun Deaths Among Children and Teens Drop Sharply Monday, July 24, 2000 Firearm deaths for children and teens dropped significantly between 1997 and 1998 according to a new mortality report released today by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. The report shows 3,792 children and adolescents under age 20 died in 1998 from firearms, down 10 percent from 4,223 in 1997, and down 35 percent from the high of 5,833 in 1994. This translates into a drop from 16 deaths per day in 1994 to 10 deaths per day in 1998. The new statistics were published in a report, "Deaths: Final Data for 1998," released by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Health Statistics (CDC, NCHS). Notice that 'children' are defined as anyone under 20 years of age. If we parse the 1997 statistics, something much more interesting is revealed: out of 4,223 "child" deaths caused by guns that year, only 142 involve children younger than 15 who were shot by accident: 3 percent. The largest group comprises shootings of 'children' aged 15 to 19 and classified under 'Homicide and Legal Intervention'. Not exactly the context this matter is normally presented in, is it?
We made lighters child-proof because they're dangerous to children. Seems to me like guns are more dangerous to children, and therefore are more deserving of child-proofing. There's a significant difference between adding a tiny bit of requisite dexterity to the process of lighting a cigarette and adding several crucial moments to the process of firing a gun in self-defense. That's a BS argument. A technology problem. Why do lighters require only a extra tiny bit whereas guns require several moments? What child gun-locks do you have experience with that take several crucial moments to manipulate? Why couldn't a child gun-lock be manufactured that only added a tiny bit of requisite dexterity? Are you so sure this is impossible? This is a technology problem.
I'm guessing if it's going to take you a couple of minutes to manipulate a gun lock, then you'd probably miss the burgler anyway. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
How does not owning a gun make you spineless? ------------------ My dream job is to be a Houston Rockets towel boy.
I agree with this. Those kids should have spoken up. They made a mistake by not doing so. But I don't think it is right to punish and alienate those kids now because of the mistake they made. I would venture to guess that those kids already feel some responsibility for what happened because of they didn't speak up, but what happened is not their fault. By punishing and alienating them, the school is saying that the tragedy is partially their fault. I don't agree with that part. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
Sorry Kagy, I was just using your typical approach to arguing, make some stupid smart ass remark that doesn't really say anything. The way I see it, if a burgler's in your house, if you don't have the extra MOMENTS to manipulate a lock, then you're probably dead, or your DVDs are going to be gone. I doubt the burgler is going to come into your bedroom and surprise you while you're sleeping, last I checked, they don't like to be caught or killed. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet. [This message has been edited by Rocketman95 (edited March 08, 2001).]
I like the lap seat belt analogy: The vast majority of the time, lap seat belts saved lives, but every once in a while, someone got decapitated. The vast majority of the time, child gunlocks prevent children from accessing guns, but every once in a while, a homeowner is killed because he couldn't disable his gunlock in time. We didn't ban the seat belt, we used technology to devise a better solution: the lap/shoulder belt.
The best solution, I believe, would be for fingerprint identification. If you're the only one who can use the gun, then it would be harder for criminals/kids to use stolen or illegal guns, once the technology has been around for awhile. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
