mrpaige, spot on! Racism isn't the difference in the numbers. The US White majority has a huge lead in differences in racial attitudes over other ethnic groups. The Whites have far more bigoted statements from its leaders like Byrd. I don't know what the answer is. I just know that there are many ways in which subcultures are very different than other ones. We have different attitudes toward many things and approach things a lot differently. So what's good and non-bigoted for Byrd-Statesmen and Koreans and Indians may not be good for the Blacks. (By the same token, what's good for Malay or Jews may not be good for a majority of us, either). I'm just saying that it's easy to sit back and say, "Get rid of the derogatory words and everything will be great", but we don't really know if that would be the case or not. There are a good many things that work within one ethnic group and don't work for crap in another.
HONESTLY I doubt School Violence is up too too much Well maybe a little because. . . NERDS DON'T BACK DOWN NO MORE! THEY GO GET AN EQUALIZER Cold War Politics in our schools Escalation is the problem as some one else said It use to be that If you had Beef. . . . you met at 3 and fought it out. . . .now it is either the O K Corral or Assassination or just Murder everyone and let God sort 'em out. ideals trickle down faster than economics Rocket River we teach our kids Violence never solves anything then bomb the sh*t out of Iraq [This message has been edited by Rocket River (edited March 06, 2001).]
Yes, it is much better to sit back and talk about what our differences are, rather then act. Meanwhile innocent kids are killed. Brilliant. DaDakota ------------------ Go Jazz * http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum3/HTML/011403.html
what DaD? Are you looking for an instant fix. We are less likely to kill each other when generations deal with differences and accept them. Didn't this kid feel different. Sure, we can seek the instant fix. If you have a solution, all the better. But, we should continue talking about our cultural differences and quit hiding our heads in the sand (like this BBS just did with the Byrd statment) to cover ourselves from our long-time problems that cannot be fixed with pen and paper and righteous activism.
California has already enacted serious gun controls. The state of California has the power to ban the sale or importation of guns it deems "unsafe". It has a 10-day waiting period on all firearm purchases. All "assault weapons" have to be registered with the state, effective 1/1/00. Individually speaking, it is illegal to buy and/or sell high-capacity magazines (defined as those holding more than ten rounds). Further, individuals are forbidden to buy more than one gun in a 30-day period. And any gun owner moving to California has 60 days to register any and all guns they own. Two questions, Dakota: 1) What is it that you know about this incident that makes you sure that new and/or stronger laws would have prevented it? Was the gun used in the shootings obtained illegally? Was it a type of gun that is typically described as an 'assault weapon'? Are you certain that you have enough of the facts in this instance-- aside from the obvious 'someone got shot, that's bad, wish it never happened'-- to propose that legislation be passed? 2) What laws would you have put in place that would have prevented the shooting? Seriously, now. I'm saddened that this happened and I'd like to see stronger security at all schools, but I think the majority of the proposed solutions I've heard are nothing more than unrealistic, emotional overreaction. Those of us that didn't lose a loved one in the shooting have the luxury of approaching the issue of preventing school shootings rationally, instead of adopting the hysterical premise that the emotional tenor of the issue is so strong that it entitles us to shirk our responsibilities as adults and dismiss reality completely when proposing solutions. We have to accept that eliminating guns or gun ownership is not feasible. It doesn't matter how absurd you might think owning a handgun or AK-47 is; Americans have the constitutional right to do so and have had it for so long that they will continue to do so even if it is made illegal. Rather than expend valuable energy in a doomed attempt to restrict gun ownership, let's focus on the issue at hand: safety at school. Here's how I'd try to fix it. Unlike a lot of people, I don't claim to have a legislative magic bullet that will eliminate misfortune. This, though, is my best guess: * During their hours of operation, schools should have exactly two entrance/exits. Both ingress and egress should require passage through a metal detector. Additional doors would open from the inside only so as to provide extra escape routes in the event of fire; these doors would be monitored be security personnel to prevent students from holding the door open for others entering the building. * Every single school should have among its security detail two full-time police officers. These would not be rent-a-cops or any such thing; they'd be cops with arrest powers and guns. * The security detail should include gun-sniffing dogs that can be used to search lockers. There must be a constitutional way to arrange this. I don't want the dogs sniffing for pot; just guns. * Students attempting to (or succeeding in) bringing a firearm on campus should be arrested and jailed. As felons, they would then lose the right to bear arms. Additionally, should the owner of the gun be a parent or guardian, their ownership rights should be temporarily restricted (as punishment more than deterrence). That's the best I can come up with.
I was being sarcastic in the school shooting thread when I mentioned all those parts of the Constitution we should just throw out because things are different now than they were when the Constitution was written. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
my apologies then. i didn't pick up on your sarcasm. i just hope this incident doesn't affect any episodes of Buffy like Columbine did. ------------------
I was reading a CNN article about the shooting, and it noted that the kids who were warned about the possible shooting but didn't tell anyone would not be welcome back at school when it opened again on Wednesday. So one kid shoots up a school because he feels alienated and the response of the school is to alienate more kids. Sounds like a good plan. Sure, in retrospect, these kids made a mistake. When the threats were made, they should've notified someone. However, they are just kids, and kids make mistakes. Not to mention that people say all sorts of crap that they don't actually mean. It's like that bit in Arkansas where the kid wrote a note talking about how he was going to kill some girl. He wasn't actually planning on killing this girl (and he never gave the note to the girl). When another kid stole the note from his room, the authorities arrested the kid for making a terroristic threat (something I didn't think was possible until you actually made the threat to someone. If I say to myself that I'm going to kill someone, does that make it a terroristic threat?) and he was kicked out of school. (Or the worse case in Denton where the kid got arrested for completing a project for class. He was told to write a scary story, so he wrote a scary story. The story got turned over to the police, and the police arrested the kid). Seriously, many trained psychologists and counselors can't know when a person is serious or not. We can't really expect a couple of kids to know when their friend is serious about shooting up a school (and if those kids are anything like me, they probably gave him the benefit of the doubt if there were any questions in their mind. Regardless of what my friends say, I wouldn't believe they were actually going to do it. As I said, people say lots of crap that they don't mean.) At any rate, I don't think it's a good plan to punish these kids and alienate them from their classmates. But that's just what I think. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
Damn good ideas Kagy. I'd give up some of my privacy if it meant I could go to school without much fear of having a tragedy like this occur. ------------------ www.swirve.com...The reason Al Gore invented the internet.
It's easy for schools to legally search lockers. The courts have already ruled such searches (even random ones without any probable cause) are constitutional. Personally, I don't want to give up my civil rights for a little more safety. I hate seeing civil rights eroded because even when the things don't directly effect me, I know that they eventually will get to infringing on things that are important to me. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
i'm confused. i thought you were in favor of less freedom of speech? (in the school shooting thread) ------------------
Nation: Virginia toddler dies after shooting self The Associated Press VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. (March 8, 2001 12:27 a.m. EST http://www.nandotimes.com) - A 3-year-old boy fatally shot himself in the head Wednesday morning with a handgun he found in his mother's bedroom, police said. Bryson G. Millstead was alone in the room when he discharged the .40-caliber semiautomatic, police spokesman Don Rimer said. The boy's mother, Gillian Millstead, 24, had just left the bedroom. "All we know is that there was a gun somewhere in the mom's bedroom, he discovered and fired it," Rimer said. The boy was pronounced dead at the scene. The boy's father is in the Navy and was at sea, Rimer said. Police were trying to notify him. So, you think this would have happened if there wasn't a gun in the house? ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
Nope, he probably would have gone for the drano under the sink......gonna outlaw that next? ------------------
Yeah, it'd be better if people didn't have guns. Homeowner wounds two while protecting his life Charles Harris, 48, was attacked Thursday night after he picked up three hitchhikers on Interstate 70 and took them back to his De Beque home. Harris was driving on I-70 near Fruita when he spotted the hitchhikers on the side of the road. He picked them up, took them back to his home and cooked a meal for them. At some point, authorities say, 25-year-old Richard Barbee of Ridgecrest, Calif., and 19-year-old Harold Scott pulled two knives on Harris and began stabbing him. Harris managed to retrieve a handgun, shoot Scott and then shoot out one of the tires on his car after Barbee and 18-year-old Colleen McLean of Bakersfield, Calif., tried to leave in it. Mesa County sheriff's deputies arrested Barbee and McLean about a quarter-mile away from Harris' home. Harris was listed in fair condition Saturday with stab wounds to his head, hands, arms, shoulder and chest. He was awake and talking, said St. Mary's spokesman Jeff Kirtland. Scott was upgraded to fair condition with a gunshot wound to his torso. Barbee and Scott are accused of attempted first-degree murder and first-degree assault. They and McLean also face charges of aggravated robbery, conspiracy to commit aggravated robbery and aggravated motor vehicle theft. McLean and Barbee remain without bond at the Mesa County Jail. Mark, I'm glad you've evidently lived a life free from violent crime, and I hope you continue to do so. I hope you continue to enjoy the privilege of taking your safety for granted, and I hope that the next time a criminal is casing your neighborhood looking for a victim, he picks your gun-owning neighbor's home and not yours. ------------------ Things are tough all over, I know what you mean... --Damon Johnson [This message has been edited by BrianKagy (edited March 08, 2001).]
Hmm. Middle-age man picks up 3 young male hitchhikers and takes them back to his home? There's more to that story than what is reported. Dude didn't need a gun. He just needed a little common sense. ------------------ In Italy for 30 years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance. In Switzerland they had brotherly love - they had 500 years of democracy and peace, and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.
I don't know whether life would be better without guns, but I'm sure this guy's life would be better if he hadn't picked up three young hitchikers and cooked dinner for them. I'm all for being a good samaritan, but isn't there a difference in being a good samaritan and putting your life at risk? ------------------ Brought to you by the letter M.
Not to be rude, but who really picks up hitchhikers?? I was always taught to NEVER EVER pick up hitchhikers. All that article shows me is that guy was stupid for picking up strangers and paid for it. dammit I wasn't quick enough. ------------------ Poopy! [This message has been edited by Ali Cat (edited March 08, 2001).]
Come on Brian, I live in New York City. Do you really think I take my safety for granted? I see crime everyday. Yet I choose not to own a gun. It's kind of a paradox. While I choose to not own a gun, I think that people should have the right to make that decision for themselves. I would not take that right away from anyone. IMHO owning a gun is for the weak minded. ------------------ Everything you do, effects everything that is.
