Dude, girls can sense that? Oh sh*t. It always seems like the "it happens naturally" stuff happens after you reach this state of hopelessness/despair that results in you giving up on women.
Manny... I'm coming into this a little late, but here is my advice, for what it's worth... It depends on what you want out of this...If what you are looking for here is the possibility of some sort of future relationship, then there is only one really important thing to remember: be honest. Forget about all the strategies and manipulations...they are short term gain-long term loss kind of plays. You will never get to know someone on a real level if they are just responding to your strategies and manipulation...and the romantic in me would suggest that you are also messing with the hand of Fate. If you two are good for each other, really good for each other, then the only way you will find that out is to actually be who you really are...and she won't be that way if you are using 'strategy'...Just tell the woman how you feel...Say you are interested, but that her behaviour and references to this 'other guy' make you feel that she is losing interest. Possible responses... 1) If she is a good person and isn't interested, she will let you know..and it's best to know now. 2) If she is a good person and is interested, she will let you know, and also be happy that you trusted her and were confident enough to tell her... 3) If she isn't a good person and isn't interested, she will look down on you for being 'soft'...and good thing too, cause who needs her? 4) If she isn't a good person and isn't a good person, well, I have no real generalization to make, except to wish you good luck... I realize that I am generalizing a little bit here, but I do beleive that honesty is the only real foundation for anything with a future... Now of you are just looking to get it on, then that's a whole other ball game...but somehow I don't think that that is the case. I do have to say that the glimpses you have given into this person, including the fact that she still wanted to leave the ball in your court after the last conversation makes me think that you may be right...and she may be losing interest. But I think it is best to be open and communicate rather than leave her hanging and see how she responds...Don't overdo it...don't make it sound do or die...just be straightforward. Now, to qualify my advice, I have to offer two sides...On the one hand, I don't 'date'...I find it too plastic, ritualistic, and am generally opposed to doing something because it is the 'way to do things'...I inadvertantly went on one what you would call a date when I was about 20, and it was terrible. It was everything I expected it to be...I almost never feel uncomfortable, but I was that day...The conversation was stale, the intimacy non-existent, and when she dropped me off and I wouldn't kiss her, she semi-joked that she had feared that all models were either stupid, shallow, or gay, and now she knew which one I was...I didn't rise to the bait, but just wanted to get the hell out of the car...LOL! A little side-tracked here, but anyways that is my one and only date story... On the other hand, I have been engaged, have lived romantically with 4 women, used to be extremely...er..active, and my friends usually ask me advice about women under the misguided assumption that I have an understanding...I don't know about that, but my mother raised me single handedly, and I knew women as equals and people before I understood that that was in question for some people...and I am still surrounded by them ( I currently have 5 female college students as roommates, and have been the token man in the house for years now.), and most of my proffesional experiences ( Bartending, teaching, acting, etc.) have offered me different opportunities for insight. So while my dating experience is less than zero, my experience with relating to women is somewhat better. You have always struck me as being a genuine, sensitive, and caring person, Manny, and that is the basis for an understanding with this woman...Not to say it's an automatic for attraction, but that if the attraction is there, your other qualities would make any decent woman realize that you need to be treated with respect and consideration...you're not just another hump trying to get into her pants. If I am right about this and you are right about her, it comes down to one simple question...is the attraction mutual...and the best way to find out, short of the tried and failed obvious, is to ask. Don't risk losing something you want because you were afraid of risking looking stupid...Life is too short, and besides, what do you care what she thinks of you if there is no future anyways? As usual I have gone on too long, and I will avoid launching into my theory about there being 5 kinds of attraction which was just about to make it's regretable and over-long way into this already ponderous post...but I really believe that honesty and self-respect are the foundations of any possible relationship..and it always starts now. Peace and Good Luck JAG
Damn...that was awesome JAG. When I was dating I always was very straightforward. Sometimes it worked...a lot of times it didn't. Many young women tend to be - shall we say - on the shallow side. That's why I never advise it. I thought I was the only guy who tried that. I always felt like dating and finding a woman to date was a game that somebody misplaced my rulebook for. Good to know that I'm not alone in hating the games. Manny...go with JAG on this one...if you decide not to I stand by my previous advice. As always...stop mind****ing yourself over this. I see no problem with going for broke at this point. Just do it so you'll know for sure. Buena suerte, amigo.
Cohen: yes, snogging really is a word. Used quite commonly round these here parts. Glynch: I'm of the 'having fun' group of young folks, fear not. In fact it's almost embarrassing how fast Elvis and I, um, got busy. We were not particularly interested in the finer nuances of mental synchronicity at the time. Sheeeeit. You're a woman with convictions, Isabel. I, on the other hand, think instant gratification takes too long. Fifth date or longer for a kiss is f*cking *glacial*! An entire civilisation could fall during those few weeks! From memory: 'Had we but world enough and time/ This coyness, lady, were no crime...' John Donne?
long thread...read through it all. I just have one thing to say regarding the title of the thread. <h3>Dating Never Sucks</h3> what sucks is not dating. just remember that and you will be fine
god I can't believe I read this monster too. Manny, I think you should read SJC's post if you haven't already. If you have, reread it. You can't overthink this stuff. And a phone call shouldn't be the second coming. I apologize for being crass... but this does not seem to be the girl. I have had my heart ripped out and handed to me; it's not fun.... The only way to recover, is honestly... date the people you normally get along with... men. I mean, errr.. oh yeah, quickly go out on another date. It may be uncomfortable for you to get a few dates out of the way... but it's all about the reps. Think of it as Ground Hog Day w/ Bill Murray... eventually you become settled and will have something to offer someone rather than looking for that missing part of you in them. It's all about patience. Breath out... breath in. Relax. And drive safely.
Well, she called me last night around 9. I didn't really want to talk to her, but I wound up, LOL, talking to her for an hour and a half. She told me that she was being unfair to me, herself, and this other guy. I told her that she needed to go ahead and choose what she wanted (choose between me and this other jabroni). She felt that since she had been out with him, off and on, for the last 2 years that she should still give him a chance. However, I later got the truth....he has told her that he is in love with her. However, she assured me that she doesn't feel like she is in love with him. I told her that it sounded like she got what she wanted, but she started going into this spill of "Well, if God means for us to be together then that will happen." Which I think is true; however, that time was not a good time to say that. She kept thinking that I was mad as I said some things to really make her think about things. She finally said "Well, I'm sorry if I wasted your time." I told her that she didn't, but she is going to have to give me a couple of days. I also told her that I was just glad that I hadn't given her a piece of my heart yet and that I am going to miss seeing her. My bet is that I will hear from her in a couple of weeks with her revelation that "she is in love with him" and that in another couple of months, I will see them in the paper announcing their engagement. Oh well, I guess it is back to posting like a madman here again!
Manny, I'm glad that it seems to be resolved. I would have to say that she sounds a little self-centered. Primary example being the fact that her 1st concern after giving you painful news was that you might be mad at her , as opposed to concern for your feelings themselves...that usually indicates someone who is pretty much looking out for no. 1... Either way, I'm glad you were honest, I'm glad it's resolved and you can move on, and I'm glad that as it turns out you handled this thing well. Take care, buddy... JAG
Good one! Welcome back! You know that this turd is telling her what she wants to hear. You were honest and she made the call. She must live with her choice. Just in case she wants you to "rescue" her later: Beware high maintenance women. They always want you to tell them what they want to hear. They make you lie to them. They'll make you buy them rich food and then ask you if they look fat. They'll play head games and test you. In the end, they'll go back to what they left in the first place. Cheers:
"You made your move too late, and now you're in the "Friend Zone." "No, no. I'm not in the zone." "Ross, you're mayor of the zone..." "Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is: never try." Hey, Manny, at the very least, you helped bring two people closer together, even though you weren't one of them. Who knows, in a few years, perhaps they'll honor you by naming their first kid after you. Stranger things have happened. Like you said before, be glad you hadn't given her a piece of your heart yet. I know what it's like to have someone rip out your heart and serve it to you in a doggy bag (like in Dumb and Dumber). It's not pretty (and I was bumming for months). You'll bounce back quick, I'm sure. Some things were never meant to be (like Catherine Zeta Jones dumping that old geezer for me), and some things just don't go together, period (like Camryn Manheim and swimsuit calendars). You simply accept it and move on. If it takes 1 solid week of pure, sloppy inebriation to get to that point, then so be it. Just get the self-pity (and possible self-loathing) out of your system. Then it's on to greater things. Eventually, I'm sure you'll find a girl who'll take your breath away and leave no doubt of her attraction to you.
Thanks JAG, Vescey, Falcons, and everyone else. I forgot to mention that on the way to work today, I was listening to Coldplay's new CD, "A Rush of Blood to the Head". One song in particular sums up this situation..."The Scientist" (I think it is track #4). GREAT, GREAT song. Do yourself a favor and listen to it when you get a chance. You'll understand why I mentioned it in this thread.
Don't call. She just liked your attention. Some women like attention. Actually all women like attention. Move on. Advice---> Date an older woman. No games.
wow, sorry to hear how it ended Manny. but I like your outlook... "at least i didn't give you a piece of my heart." thats really damn healthy. now go out there and find another one!
Yo Manny.. Read through this gigantic thread today.. Crazy situation. I think you handled it well, especially by telling her she needed to choose. I love that song! The day I bought the album, I learned the chords, etc and have been playing/singing it a lot!.. Good luck in future endeavors.. As far as older women, I've done it twice and haven't had too much luck. The first time, I was 24 and she was 31.. Within 2 weeks, he biological clock was ticking and she wanted to know if I thought this was leading to marriage which scared me off quicker than JLo dropping a bf/husband.. The 2nd one I posted about a few months ago. She was my boss.. I'm 27, she's 33.. We had a secret affair for a while and it ended and things became really weird at work. I quit and I'm currently temping and having a hard time finding a reasonable paying full time job.. I think it could be good, but so far, my experience hasn't been too great.
